When you step away from your shop (and a project) for more than a few days, how do you pick the threads back up?
Do you take notes? Leave reminders?
On this episode, Logan, John, and I talk about getting back in the groove. Logan also talks about his new 3D printer.
ShopNotes Podcast Episode 216: I Look At It More Than I Do It
In Episode 216 of the Shop Notes Podcast, Phil, Logan, and John discuss strategies for resuming woodworking projects after a break, share pragmatic solutions to common challenges, and explore how modern tools like 3D printers are reshaping the workshop.
Talking Points
Resuming Projects After a Break
- Phil shares a story about revisiting a tool chest project and discovering uneven trim pieces mid-assembly.
- The team discusses how to stay organized, whether through note-taking or visual cues, to seamlessly pick up a project after time away.
Practical Woodworking Solutions
- The hosts discuss making compromises in materials and methods to complete projects. Logan talks about filling voids in oak with Durham's Rock Hard Water Putty, offering a practical fix for flawed lumber.
- They reflect on the balance between craftsmanship and efficiency, especially when using imperfect materials like mixed oak species.
Integrating 3D Printing in Woodworking
- The team discusses the growing role of 3D printing for shop jigs, fixtures, and vintage machinery parts.
- Logan shares his experience with a newly purchased 3D printer, exploring its potential for creating durable ABS plastic components.
Listener Poll Questions:
- The team invites listeners to share their insights on:
- Managing woodworking projects left unfinished.
- Pragmatic fixes they’ve used in their own projects.
- Experiences with tools like 3D printers, laser cutters, or CNC routers.
I want to hear from you
Join the conversation by leaving a comment on YouTube or emailing your thoughts to woodsmith@woodsmith.com. We'd love to hear your woodworking stories and questions for future episodes.
Sponsored by Titebond
Titebond is the trusted choice for woodworkers, offering glues for every project, from strong initial tack to water-resistant options. Learn more at Titebond.com.
Episode Transcript
Phil Huber (00:49.443) It's the shop notes podcast, everybody. I'm your host, Phil Huber. It's time again for another episode along with John and Logan today. We're going to give a little shop update following the Thanksgiving holiday and, topic of the day is strategies for picking up a project where you left off among other things. This episode of the shop notes podcast is brought to you by Titebond.
You want a glue that you can trust, and fortunately, Titebond has the glue you need to get the job done with confidence. From interior glues with strong initial tack and short clamp time, to exterior glues with exceptional strength and water resistance, look to Titebond, the right glue for your next project. For more information, visit Titebond.com.
Phil Huber (01:43.949) There we are.
Logan (01:45.809) Okay, can we start off this episode with a confession that I have? Okay. There is one thing that John Doyle does that drives me absolutely nuts. And I, and I, no, no, no, no, no, no. And I'm, and I'm saying this knowing that I'm opening up myself to a lot of things that I probably do that annoy everybody else. Okay. The only, the single and only thing that John does that annoys the crap out of me.
Phil Huber (01:56.673) Whoa, I didn't realize it was like, wow.
John Doyle (01:57.739) Here we go. Shots fired right out of the gate.
Phil Huber (02:09.091) All right.
Logan (02:14.833) he has a tendency to mix red oak and white oak, especially when it comes to plywood backs. So we could be building this beautiful white oak piece and he'll come in carrying a piece of red oak plywood. And I get it. That's what we have in the shop, right? Like it is what it is. My confession is I am currently doing the same thing. last night,
Started to work on the window trim for my office building the window cases I had at one point playing down some oak some bur oak I think for I don't know if it was for windows or if it was just for trim or what it was for Started cutting that up I only had one piece of that and then I started pulling some other oak out of the rack and planing it down got everything like kind of pretty much cut and stuff
put them all next to each other. I'm like, what the hell? Half of this is red oak, half of this is white oak. And I'm looking at it like, does it matter? Does it really matter? And it doesn't.
because they're not, so none of this is like true white oak and true red oak, like northern red oak. And so like, you don't have that like huge difference. I'm sure these are like subspecies, like one of them is probably a jack oak or a black oak or so, you know, like they're close-ish enough that it didn't jump out at me right away. So I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna roll with it.
Phil Huber (03:50.402) Okay.
Logan (03:54.437) but I felt like I had to get it off my chest because it was wearing on my conscience that I've secretly judged John for the last seven seasons. I've seen him. Yeah.
Phil Huber (04:02.659) or not so secretly judged.
John Doyle (04:02.665) Yeah Yeah, I think I did that just in the recent episode when you were building the tool tote we needed like quarter inch plywood bottoms and it's like It's not gonna matter Plus like the bad side of the red oak plywood usually it looks like white oak. So you just like flip it Yeah, but I definitely did that in the sideboard from a couple seasons ago
Logan (04:12.881) You did? You did? Yeah.
Logan (04:25.499) Flip it around. Yeah, I know. I know.
Logan (04:31.633) 100 %
John Doyle (04:32.39) And it's the side panel. Yeah, it's the side panel. it's like, thought I could get away with it, but it kind of sticks out.
Phil Huber (04:41.645) mean, to be fair for that episode, our initial plan was to resaw solid wood panels for that sideboard. And then as we, out of the burrow, and as we got going along, we're like, ain't nobody got time for this if we're gonna get this episode done.
Logan (04:41.96) yeah.
Logan (04:50.595) Yes.
Out of the burrow, yeah.
John Doyle (04:59.496) So, right.
Logan (05:01.103) Yep. Yep. I'm not faulting John for it. I'm just saying it drives me nuts. And here I am.
John Doyle (05:07.378) I wouldn't typically choose to do that, but sometimes it's gotta get done.
Logan (05:12.382) I know, I know, I get it, I understand it completely and that's why I'm not faulting you for it, I'm just judging you.
John Doyle (05:20.187) yeah, I remember probably 20 years ago now I was building a Christmas present, like tip out garbage can for my sister and just trying to scrap stuff together. And I had a bunch of hickory that I was doing and was doing the door and I got all done and I was like, I think that's an ash panel in the, hickory door. So.
Logan (05:43.097) And is it still that way?
John Doyle (05:44.517) Yes, I just went with it, you know, so it's rocked it.
Logan (05:48.273) Nope, get it. Yep. So, you know, it is what it is. At this point, I'm just kind of using... The problem is with a lot of this bur oak and some of this red oak, which I'm gonna have to do a little research and figure out what species of red oak this is, because it's not a true Northern red oak. We don't get Northern reds very often here. And it's not pin oak for sure. I think it's probably like a jack oak or something.
could be a swamp white, no it's a swamp white oak. it has some really nice like ray fleck and that's kind what I'm going for and the reason that I'm using it instead of like either stashing away for a project or selling it is that along with that ray fleck there's a lot of knots and defects. Like
almost like what looks like wormholes but they're like pinky sized so yeah like they're just like big voids in there and i don't know if it is like a branch that died and the knot fell out of the tree and then it healed around it i don't know what it is there's just some big voids
Phil Huber (06:46.625) Whoa.
Phil Huber (07:00.417) It may be where somebody was trying to get oak sap from in the spring for like oak syrup.
Logan (07:03.693) Yeah, probably that. Yeah. Yeah, probably. but you know, like it's, kind of interesting. It's a good way to use it. Like, it's just gonna be my office. Like doesn't really matter, you know? So that's just those. Yeah. I filled up. I filled a lot. so Phil and I did her. What's that just be? It was just me. I, you, I guess you did a video for them. Not for them. You did a video on the Durham's rock hard water putty.
Phil Huber (07:32.695) Yes.
Logan (07:33.009) I did a sponsored video from them. But they are local to Des Moines and they brought us a bunch of cans for the video I was doing. So I grabbed one of the four pound cans. I'm like, this is a lifetime supply. After filling voids, it is a three project supply. Because I am mixing a bunch of, I had a bunch of, or I had a little thing of India ink from something.
So I mix up the India ink in it. It didn't get pure black. It got like grayish black. So just is what it is. Better than seeing insulation poking through.
Phil Huber (08:18.733) which is a curious side quest here in woodworking. Like what pragmatic steps do you take in a project in order to get the project done?
Phil Huber (08:37.699) in the sense that the people on the internet would be horrified by, by violating some sort of purity ethic or whatever, you know. It's the same way with parenting. And the three of us are parents and there are things that you do as a parent that are entirely pragmatic. And once you have children past a certain age, anytime you see a new parent that's like, well, I finally broke down and
insert pragmatic step in order to be able to get a good night's sleep or whatever. And you're like, you're all right with that. That's okay. We're not judging here.
John Doyle (09:18.69) Yeah, the only problem for me on that, the parenting side, is that I have teenagers and then a break and then elementary age kids and it's the teenagers calling out, hey, when I was a kid, I didn't get away with this or it's like, hey, you take over, you know it all.
Phil Huber (09:27.811) Thank
Phil Huber (09:36.833) Yeah, right. You're like, we were rookies with you guys. So. Yeah.
John Doyle (09:41.609) Right, we're just learning. We've perfected it now.
Logan (09:44.485) Yeah. Yeah. You were the oopsie kids. Like we just kind of figured it out.
John Doyle (09:47.208) Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Logan (09:51.087) Yep. I will say some of this oak, there is some cracks on the inside of the cases. Like it's that type of stuff. Like I would never use it in a real project. because when we filled these trees, there was some heart pole on it. So the center of the tree kind of pulled out a little bit.
So I got one board off, see if I can grab it here in a second, that has like really big, like the end of the board on the inside looks like the bristles of a broom. Yeah, it's pretty heavy.
Phil Huber (10:23.722) wow.
Phil Huber (10:31.8) We'll wait.
Logan (10:33.339) I got it, don't worry. Check this out. That's the inside. Yeah, so she's pretty squishy there, but I think I got enough to screw into and the outside face looks great. So like, you know what? Doesn't matter. Would I use it on a project? No, absolutely not.
John Doyle (10:38.215) Yeah.
Phil Huber (10:39.135) okay.
Phil Huber (10:48.85) yeah.
Logan (10:58.085) Window cases? Absolutely.
Phil Huber (11:02.605) I mean, there definitely is an A and a B side to hardwood boards in many instances.
Logan (11:08.196) always.
Phil Huber (11:10.805) and
You know, even within like a furniture piece, you can have structural pieces that will never see the light of day.
You know that I've done, like when I built that sideboard for my sister, like it's one thing to say, you know, I'm only going to use premium, well-selected, blah, blah, blah. But at the end of the day, it's like, these are the boards that I have to work with. And this piece has a nice face. The inside face is a little janky and the bottom edge isn't really what I would like. But if it's the lower back rail on a sideboard.
Logan (11:52.593) that goes up against the wall. Yep. Yeah. I find myself, especially with walnut, doing that with sapwood. Like, I will tuck the, like, if sapwood's only showing on one side, I'll tuck that on the inside of the case. So if you look on the inside, it looks like a zebra, but from the outside...
John Doyle (12:21.021) Psst.
Phil Huber (12:22.467) I'm going to justify my decisions on that is when you look at historic furniture that has survived, you see very similar things. that's how I.
Logan (12:33.093) Well, I think especially on historic furniture, because there's a man, there's a pit saw somewhere that guys are ripping boards off of a piece of, you know, off of a tree. You're not going to tell them, hey, this isn't good enough. They will throttle you. Like after the guy spits all the shavings out of his mouth, he's coming at you.
Phil Huber (12:48.195) Right.
Phil Huber (12:52.675) You
John Doyle (12:54.086) Thanks
Phil Huber (12:59.459) All right.
Logan (12:59.825) So, yeah.
Phil Huber (13:04.077) So Jack Oak, is that related to like Jackalopes?
Logan (13:08.241) I think so, Cousins, I think. Not as tasty.
Allegedly.
Phil Huber (13:14.945) Right, do you have, now.
because oak species are so varied and based on what you're saying there, are there hybrid oaks? know, in the same way like here in Iowa, we have red foxes and gray foxes and then every so often.
Logan (13:28.58) I'm sure there are.
Phil Huber (13:39.863) you know, the two tribes come together and you have hybrid foxes.
Logan (13:41.967) Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure you do. I guess I don't know plant genetics, but like I have to assume that as some to some degree, John went to school for this. I shouldn't be talking right now. He was, you know, artificially pollinating trees in the woods, right? Yeah. I mean, you have to assume at some point, like
John Doyle (13:57.829) Right. Yeah.
Phil Huber (14:07.939) crossbreeding.
Logan (14:13.425) They're all a little bit of a mutt somehow,
Phil Huber (14:17.123) I don't know. That's what I'm asking.
Logan (14:21.167) Or is there like square pollen holes for burroaks and there's round pollen holes for pinnokes and they don't fit together?
John Doyle (14:29.85) Think that's our next podcast, the birds in the trees.
Phil Huber (14:29.965) All right, this is,
Logan (14:33.074) Hahaha!
John Doyle (14:36.484) We're gonna have to have a special guest on to explain it to us.
Logan (14:40.977) That was awesome.
Phil Huber (14:41.271) All right, we need a forester or somebody in the audience, or if you know somebody who really should be helping us out here, please make sure that you comment very angrily in one of the comments section about how.
Logan (14:49.887) god, that was great.
John Doyle (14:53.741) Yeah. Some dendrology husbandry expert.
Logan (14:59.825) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Preferably from Fanghorn.
Phil Huber (15:00.033) There we go. Yep. Or an ant. If you know of an ant, a shepherd of the trees that could help us out here with some backstory that would be a... Yeah. Yeah.
John Doyle (15:01.857) or hobbyists, yeah.
Phil Huber (15:14.275) Yeah, so there we go. See, now we're just, this is a ways of building audience participation and interaction.
Logan (15:24.251) Yeah.
Phil Huber (15:24.983) is when we flail about, like waking up in the middle of the night.
Phil Huber (15:32.483) trying to maneuver your way through the house and stepping on Legos and.
Phil Huber (15:40.395) Okay, here's a question that I have that I want to pose to you two and also to the audience is we're recording this in the week after Thanksgiving. And prior to Thanksgiving, I had started the first two classes of a four class, four session class on building a
tool chest or small chest for the Des Moines Woodworkers. And I've been building it along with the students. And so I had the class, and then we had shop notes, magazine go out. So I set that aside, then the week of Thanksgiving, came back to it, and was working on it yesterday, putting some trim pieces on, where I had thought that past fill had
ripped all the base trim pieces to the same width. So I was just mitering pieces and then starting to stick them onto the onto the chest with glue and nails. And then as I got like the second or the third, well, I did the two end pieces and then was doing the two front and back pieces. I realized that as I was putting the front and back pieces on that no, I did not cut them all to the same width.
which is a crazy mistake to feel when there's wet glue on the backside of a piece. Two other ones are nailed on.
Logan (17:15.449) It just makes it really hard to push the table saw.
John Doyle (17:17.622) Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've done that. I've been mitering and table sawing pieces with glue on one or two edges and just gotta be careful.
Phil Huber (17:18.315) Right, yeah.
Phil Huber (17:26.822) you
Phil Huber (17:33.411) has glue set off a saw stop. That's what I wet. Right.
John Doyle (17:35.285) That's what I always wonder too. It's like, how long do I have to let this panel set up before? But hasn't triggered it yet. Yeah. You just turn the safety feature off. Just always keep it off.
Logan (17:43.355) I just bypass it. I do. Yeah, I mean, and you can't like you legitimately can. Yeah, and I do. I don't always give it off. But like, if there's something that I'm like, this is really questionable. yeah, she gets she gets turned off.
Phil Huber (17:45.849) Just bypass it.
Phil Huber (18:07.395) So anyway, having learned my lesson and I was able to fix it because I have a shoulder plane and you could just buzz off the pieces that were too high. just put them on with a common reference edge at the bottom edge and then whatever the top edge was, I just evened it out with shoulder plane. Worked fine. I'm making it out of white pine so didn't take long to do. So the question is, is when you come back
to a project or you set aside a project.
Phil Huber (18:42.957) Do you guys take notes or any kind of writing down of like, this is where we were at. And then if so, or if not, like what's the reorientation process?
John Doyle (19:00.499) Yeah, yeah as you were talking I was thinking it'd probably be a good idea to keep notes of where you left off and what you need to do next but have I ever done that now? It's just like where was I? What do need to do? So yeah.
Logan (19:01.027) Surprise, generally.
Phil Huber (19:02.504) Hahaha!
Phil Huber (19:10.231) No. Yeah.
Logan (19:15.343) Well, it's funny because I also finished what was supposed to be a two class class on building this little mantle box turned into a four class class. A four session class. Yeah. And we finished that up on Tuesday this week. And every single one of those, I'm like, all right, you know, guys, we got all these parts cut. We're done there. And they're like, no, we didn't. We didn't get to that last time. I'm like,
John Doyle (19:26.739) That's value.
Phil Huber (19:28.963) Mm-hmm.
John Doyle (19:41.586) That was supposed to be the homework.
Logan (19:43.767) I thought we got further than we did. So it's funny because like, guess if I'm, I don't ever find myself starting and stopping a project. just don't finish projects. So yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking in particular, my wife's office doors that I said on a podcast two years ago, I'd have done in several weeks and I never did. but I guess it might've been.
John Doyle (19:57.766) Yeah, you just stop and don't come back.
John Doyle (20:05.98) Yeah. Yeah.
Phil Huber (20:09.047) I think it was actually longer than two years ago if we dig that one back out. Yeah.
John Doyle (20:11.495) Yeah.
Logan (20:13.189) Yeah. but I guess if I'm like building a furniture piece, generally I'm working on it nonstop, like the whole way through. like, you know, I know like you, you took off for, you know, a little Thanksgiving vacation and stuff. I don't ever really find myself doing that. So like, I guess I don't, or if I do,
I tried to get to a good stopping point on that section. You know what mean? Like, okay, don't touch the bass trim until I come back.
you know, and just block it apart. But I try to block stuff like that in sections anyways, because I'm shooting photos and I'm trying to pace myself to pages of a magazine. So it's like, okay, carcass done. You know, I can go do what I need to do, you know, screw around, go chase ducks for a day or two, and then come back and say, all right, carcass is done. Let's do drawers now. Do drawers. Okay, go chase ducks again, or whatever I'm doing.
Phil Huber (21:17.091) Sure. Yeah. And the funny part was, as I realized that the bass trim pieces were uneven as I was putting it on,
That's when the memory triggered of past self saying, now I just got to make sure that I trim all these to the same width, which is kind of funny on how that kind of works. Okay, so you don't do that on furniture projects, but let's maybe contextualize a little bit and say like, I don't know, we'll just make something up here. Say you have this old tool that you're trying to get back into running order.
and it's delayed for various reasons. How do you figure out where you...
Logan (22:05.979) how ironic this is, Phil. How ironic this is. I'm gonna spin you guys. Check out that sweet drill press that is put back together. Not painted, as everyone will, I'm sure, comment. I did not paint it like I planned on. So, yes.
John Doyle (22:08.387) Yeah.
Phil Huber (22:11.767) Okay.
Phil Huber (22:16.151) Yeah.
Phil Huber (22:21.699) Which is fine.
Logan (22:28.273) Okay. Getting a little bit of crow here because as I started to put this drill press back together, okay, pulled it apart because the bearings were bad. Get to a point where I'm like, I should really paint it since I got it this far apart. Got to a point where I'm like, well, shoot, we need this drill press kind of for this class. I just put the thing back together real quick. Doesn't take that long.
Phil Huber (22:32.535) Hahaha!
Logan (22:57.649) I'm like, where did all these little screws come from?
Phil Huber (23:00.599) Ha ha ha ha.
Logan (23:02.297) So luckily on a machine like this, can, because I did not exactly remember how this thing went together, I was able to pull a parts diagram to see how everything sat. yeah.
I guess I try. It's a lot of trial and error. I guess. See, the thing is, like with a machine, like either goes back to the right or doesn't. So like you put it back together, stuff doesn't work. It's like, okay, that wasn't the right way. No how not to do it now. you know, like same way with John, like I should I should I write notes? Yeah, I should. actually there's a, there's a few.
on the machine side of it. There's a few YouTube channels that I follow. Hand tool rescue being the main one that does a lot of like restoration of stuff. It's called hand tool rescue, but doesn't do hand tools. it's, it's like,
know, gas powered snow shovel from the 1930s. Like it's ridiculous stuff. Like, like all of this ridiculous stuff that you're like, wow, I'm surprised they made that because people died when they made it. that's how his channel started is he actually videoed himself doing it. so, you know, I guess
John Doyle (24:15.241) you
Logan (24:36.207) Yeah, I probably should take notes, but ain't nobody got time for that. At least, you know, from a, I guess, a furniture standpoint, the one project I do have sitting there that's just as unfinished, like in half started and I'm going to finish it at some point is the stupid disc sander in the studio. Like I remember where I got with it. Like tables on motor needs on now and then shrouds need on. like you got to build all that stuff. I know where that's at.
John Doyle (24:52.615) Hmm.
Phil Huber (24:53.622) yeah.
Logan (25:05.648) I don't know.
I just, maybe it's just cause I work slow and I just kind of, I look at it more than I do it. So I don't know. Definitely have done stuff where I'm like, wow, dummy, what are you doing?
Phil Huber (25:19.949) Not it.
Phil Huber (25:27.863) I think there's also been projects, usually if I have a project that is taking a long time.
there are very few instances where it's totally out of my mind like this one was because of the holiday. There's a lot of times where a project takes a long time, but in that time, it's still occupying your mind where I'm making doodles in my notebook about it or writing down little checklist items of this is what I need to do next on it. Because I usually end up doing that with like a little post-it on projects where
John Doyle (25:43.978) Mm-hmm.
Logan (25:45.563) Sure. Yeah.
Phil Huber (26:07.201) I'm in a meeting here at work or something and I just write down like, this is the project. These are the things that I, you know, are up next on the punch list. So it's, it's something that's in my head a lot. And it was just kind of weird to have something like this where it just was totally gone. Yeah.
Logan (26:26.737) completely slipped it. I'm just going to preface this, Phil, and say that you're going to get comments. It's the old age thinking up on you. No, think you have a... I you have definitely a leg up on, at least myself, and I know John doesn't do it either. You have that notebook that you always have your design stuff in. So that is a good spot to doodle notes, you know what I mean? I don't have that. At best. At
Phil Huber (26:34.113) Right? Probably is.
John Doyle (26:54.793) Thank
Logan (26:56.687) Best I have a SketchUp model on my computer that's like two thirds finished. the rest of them just figuring it out.
Phil Huber (27:01.441) Hahaha
John Doyle (27:01.769) Yeah, I've got web browser tabs open. Does that count?
Logan (27:08.77) Yes, you do That's funny
Phil Huber (27:09.153) Yes, yes.
Phil Huber (27:17.539) So how about you, John, for, I mean, even for work, you're, say you're designing projects and then, you know, you do TV show stuff or you get a end of issue where you're reading through articles as well or whatever and have to come back to it.
John Doyle (27:38.149) Yeah, there's probably a lot of wasted time of like bouncing around and reorienting and figuring out where I left off and lack of organization there. Usually in the design process too, it's like every time it's like I saved right as I'm going through and then the computers were all reset at work and it's like, I didn't save. Now I need to learn to save every five minutes. And but it's always easy doing it the second time.
because you did it once, so... right. So there's a lot of that and bouncing around.
Phil Huber (28:07.597) Yeah, right. You know you could do it.
John Doyle (28:16.197) Not very.
Logan (28:16.453) I that's what, yeah, that's where I boil down to is I probably waste a lot of time by trying to figure out what I was doing where I could save myself some time by writing notes.
Phil Huber (28:33.207) I do like the idea of having, know, trying to get to a stopping point section wise or whatever prep wise, and then being able to stop there.
and just let it go.
I don't know, should give you an idea of what needs to happen following that.
Logan (29:01.862) Yeah.
Phil Huber (29:05.111) I think part of the issue was, is I've been doing this project a little bit here over lunch hours as I get ready for classes, or I've been doing some of it at home. So normally I have either a project going here or it's in my home shop. And I think having a fixed place on it gives me like a geographical memory to know where stuff is. But.
Logan (29:32.194) yeah, yeah.
Phil Huber (29:36.503) when I carted around in my car a lot, then...
then I, I don't know. It's like easier to remember stuff in a book than it is online. It's like, I can see that it was on the left-hand page in such and so section, rather than I scroll down three times with my scroll wheel and then two with the arrow and there it is.
Phil Huber (30:05.601) All right, that was my.
That was my fun observation today, or yesterday as I was putting that on.
Logan (30:15.473) Yeah. So switching gears, did, it's been what? Two months now, almost two months since we did WIA, right? We had a planning session this week on 2025 for everybody. Want to know if we're going do it again? We are. To be determined, probably the same weekend it sounds like. Yep.
John Doyle (30:22.436) you
John Doyle (30:26.308) Mm-hmm.
John Doyle (30:33.412) you
Phil Huber (30:41.591) Yeah, we're working on nailing down the specific weekend with a venue and it's probably going to be, it'll be either the 10th and 11th of October or the 17th and 18th, Friday, Saturday, like we did.
Logan (30:51.845) Yep. So just block both weekends. but my question is that either of you guys get to go to Ben Stranow's presentation on 3d printing for the shop. How was it?
John Doyle (30:55.363) you
John Doyle (31:03.33) I did not.
Phil Huber (31:03.435) I did. I was at his, the first one. He did a great job because he framed it in the sense of how he does 3D printing. Also how he does his woodworking and what he's using his 3D printer for in relation to that. Also just the fact of his, I don't know, his personality the right word. I don't know that that's it, but just
Logan (31:24.889) So having.
Phil Huber (31:34.807) how it makes sense for him and he has an inclination towards that kind of tooling anyway.
Logan (31:39.577) Yeah, having gone to that, does that make you see the value of having a 3D printer available for your shop? Does it?
Phil Huber (31:47.187) yeah. Yeah, it does. Especially since, I think even the one that he currently recommends as like a starter 3D printer is right. It's like $200. You know, so $200 is not a huge investment.
Logan (31:58.543) Yeah, it's the A1 Mini from Bamboo Labs.
Phil Huber (32:10.531) For many people, $200 is a pretty small investment. And when you consider woodworking tools in general, that's a pretty small investment.
Logan (32:18.405) That's buying a new drill and battery.
John Doyle (32:20.257) Mm-hmm.
Logan (32:22.257) now I asked this because my surprise, guys, I bought without thinking. And I'm pretty sure as, as we were starting our podcast FedEx below the driveway, and I think the 3d printer, I ordered just arrived and I've been texting Ben back and forth about it. Like, I'm going to be picking your brain. And he's like, it can do that. because.
John Doyle (32:22.945) you
Phil Huber (32:30.978) That checks.
Phil Huber (32:37.997) Okay.
John Doyle (32:42.721) you
John Doyle (32:49.569) you
Logan (32:50.993) Okay, I told my son, I think I told you guys this, like I told my son's been asking for 3D printer for a long time. Okay. And I told him like, hey, if you learn how to model stuff in 3D, he's 10 years old. If you learn how to model stuff in 3D, I will buy you a 3D printer thinking he's going to go ding around for 20 minutes, say it's too hard, and then be done.
an hour later, he like, come look at what I did. I'm like, God, you little a-hole. And so I had to follow through with it. So I asked Ben, you know, which one he suggested. He suggested the Bamboo Labs A1 Mini, I believe.
Phil Huber (33:27.288) Right.
Logan (33:35.745) And after doing a little bit of research and talking to Puppy Doc a bit, as we're loading up the sawmill for him to bring back to Wisconsin, he suggested a different one. And I started kind of diving down a little bit of a rabbit hole with it, like...
Logan (33:55.057) There's several types of filament you can use. The standard stuff is fairly brittle, I guess, and doesn't have a whole lot of tensile strength. ABS plastic is a lot tougher, and that's the stuff that's kind of, I don't want to call it indestructible, but it's definitely more like a heavy-duty use item.
John Doyle (34:04.763) you
Logan (34:16.369) I'm like, well, if I'm going to buy a 3D printer, I'm going to buy one that can print ABS plastic because I got all this vintage machinery that I might not be able to have a part or I can't order a part for it. I could potentially print out of ABS. I'm thinking immediately my mind goes to this pattern maker lathe. I would really like to print a router holder so I could put a router in the compound. Right.
Phil Huber (34:39.638) Sure.
Logan (34:41.207) So like, yeah, yeah, I make it out of wood, but it'd way, way cooler to 3d print it. so I ordered one that it wasn't their high end one. It's kind of a middle tier one, but it can do the ABS stuff. So now I'm like, okay, now it's a really justified this to my wife. I have to figure out ways to actually use this in the shop and like, see if it, I guess it's kind of an experiment. Like, can I fit it into my standard shop stuff?
John Doyle (34:45.534) you
John Doyle (35:01.694) you
Logan (35:11.803) my standard shop workflow because I've tried that with lasers, I've tried that with CNCs, and neither one of those just fit into how I work at all. So.
Phil Huber (35:22.349) Okay.
Logan (35:25.379) It's one of those things that I'm kind of like, I talked to Chris, I have a laser and a CNC that are going back into the shop there because I just don't use them and I don't want them sitting around if I'm not using them. I'd rather somebody there not use them. so like, you know, it's, it's an experiment to see if I will actually use it and if I can actually make it make sense in my workflow.
John Doyle (35:25.598) Thanks.
John Doyle (35:30.814) Thanks.
John Doyle (35:40.142) Thank
Logan (35:51.409) I'm thinking more for jigs and stuff like that, not necessarily making parts for a project.
Yeah, I don't know. We'll see.
Phil Huber (36:03.266) For me, the biggest issue has been knowing that if I go down that path, then I'm going to be.
it would be a good idea to really understand a 3D modeling program, like Fusion 360 or something like that, to be able to do something more than just download somebody else's design and print it.
Logan (36:23.003) Yep.
John Doyle (36:23.366) you
Logan (36:26.79) Yeah.
Phil Huber (36:36.161) which isn't a bad way to get involved with it. But, and I just don't know. I sometimes feel like I already have limited shop time. So if I'm going to convert some of that shop time to learning a 3d modeling program, then that feels like it's taking away from actually making something.
Logan (36:58.341) Yeah. And I agree. I agree with that. and I felt that way with SketchUp, like trying to figure out SketchUp. Like, I mean, I, I'm young enough that I had CAD classes in high school. So like, I kind of was taught this a little bit, like during my shop, my actual shop classes in high school. so SketchUp wasn't a huge transition, but like, yeah, trying to figure out how to, and I think there are ways to take SketchUp into 3d printing. I'm pretty sure.
in the 3D printing files. But yeah, like everyone's like, you need to really learn like Fusion or Inventor to be able to really make the most out of it. And not only are they like, it's a big time investment to understand those programs and learn them, but they're also really expensive.
John Doyle (37:53.498) Mm-hmm.
Phil Huber (37:53.922) Yeah.
Logan (37:54.129) That's the other thing is I don't know how much we pay for inventor licenses, but there's several hundred dollars a year. And I mean, can, you can like, if you join like the, I don't remember what it was, like the airplane and aviation engineering society for $40 a year, you get a free copy of it. So it's like, can do, like there's things you could do like that, but yeah, I get what you're saying, Phil. And that is one of my...
Phil Huber (38:01.655) Yeah.
John Doyle (38:04.666) Thank
Logan (38:23.761) concerns where it's like, how much time am I really, if I need to say, draw a part for this drill press, like, A, is it gonna look like somebody built it out of Legos? Because probably.
and B, how long is that gonna take me?
John Doyle (38:44.344) So what was the program your son was using to 3D model with? Minecraft?
Phil Huber (38:44.557) Yeah, no, that's all fair.
Logan (38:50.865) Believe it or not that are no, they actually do make, like kid 3d modeling programs. So he found one of those that's like, it's like a very basic, like it kind of guides you through like the three or four functions that you need to put stuff together. And then it's like, Hey, go play. And yeah. So he just, he did a bunch of stuff. like, maybe I needed to get like the Fisher price 3d modeling program.
Phil Huber (39:19.991) Maybe. Yeah.
Logan (39:20.431) and that'll do it. I don't know.
Phil Huber (39:24.867) Could be. Well, that'll be kind of cool to see what you come up with for that. That would be.
Logan (39:29.379) Yeah, well, and it's like one of those things like, you know, I still have to have these bearings cast for my jointer. Like, I could 3D print it to make sure that that is gonna work before I send that out to have a mold made, you know? So, like, there are definitely some... There's a... I think there's a use for it, for sure. The,
it would be cheaper to pay somebody to do it? Maybe. Like, I guess, you know, even this being a middle of the road 3d printer wasn't in the realm of woodworking tools. As you said, Phil, it's all, it's all perception. It wasn't terribly expensive. You know, this printer was on sale on Black Friday for 4.99. So like, I have, I have more than that in my chuck for my lathe. So
You know, it's one of those things, like, I would pay somebody more than that to model and print the bearings for my jointer mold. So it's all, it's all perspective and relative, but it'll be interesting to see. part of me, he's like, you know,
You know who really likes that kind of aesthetic? Some of the stuff that Dylan's used hardware wise really could easily be 3D printed. Like I was thinking like the little knobs he uses for some stuff. So for some shop made tools, like those are easily 3D printed if you wanted to. So, and I know I'm pretty sure Chris has a 3D printer, doesn't he? So.
John Doyle (40:47.606) See you.
Phil Huber (40:56.56) yeah.
John Doyle (41:00.95) Yeah.
Phil Huber (41:02.871) Yes, he does.
Phil Huber (41:07.713) Yeah, he 3D, Ben a few years ago made a transfer gauge that he designed and 3D printed. So then he posted the link to the file for that on the fine woodworking site. And then Chris printed one for me. And then so I have it. So yeah.
Logan (41:16.687) Yeah.
Logan (41:31.653) I mean, it's just, it's, you know, stupid little things like that, that are like the, the small little nice tools to have that you don't, you're not going to go buy, but man, if you just print it, like, why not? I'm thinking like a,
You know, a protrusion gauge for sharpening jigs, you know, like, yeah, you could screw pieces to your bench, but if you could just print it, you know, why not? Or, I have a couple of angle blocks that I use to set up the, platform on my bench grinder for sharpening blade tools. Like I could actually print one that fits it correctly instead of being a universal one. It's a little stuff like that. Like, I don't know. We'll see. This is an experiment.
John Doyle (42:14.804) Thank
Logan (42:16.379) There may be a Bamboo Labs P1S for sale in three months. I don't know. I could be trying to sell it. don't know. We'll see. Yeah. Yeah.
Phil Huber (42:21.507) You
Stay tuned.
No, like I've thought about it and seeing what Ben and Chris have done and has been really kind of eye opening on what the capabilities are. And, you know, I like to tinker with shop jigs or tools or accessories or add-ons or something like that, just to do different things. And I can see where that would be a, would be a huge thing.
Logan (42:52.559) Yeah, I guess from my perspective, it's always been one of those things like the 3D printers are really good at printing tchotchkes and I hate tchotchkes. And to be completely fair, that's why my son wanted one. My son loves tchotchkes. He wants little Minecraft figures sitting on a shelf that he's 3D printed.
John Doyle (43:03.174) Hehehe.
Phil Huber (43:03.98) Right.
Logan (43:16.849) And just yesterday in one of the machinist groups on Facebook, saw a guy had, he was not giving away the files, but he was selling, he had designed and 3D printed little miniature Kennedy tool chests or toolboxes, like the little stacking styles, like kind of cool. I don't want one, but you know, like I get it. I do get it. And there are, yeah, I mean, I think there's uses for them.
there are limitations on them as well because it still is a molded plastic. It's not a cast part. So although we had matter hackers here at WIA, they, I was talking to one of the gentlemen there, there are companies that sell filament because these 3D printers basically use a spool of plastic that they put it through a hot
Phil Huber (43:54.563) Right.
Logan (44:15.759) you know, lack better term, a hot glue gun nozzle that's on a CNC carriage and it prints it, right? But they, they do sell, some of these companies sell filament that is a powdered metal that when you buy the one kilogram spool, you might be paying $200 for the spool, but that also includes you printing the part, sending it to them. And they basically put it in a kiln that
basically turns it into a solid steel part. Which to me is crazy. And I was talking to the guys there about it and they're like, yeah, we've, have printed stuff, brought it in and like machined it with our vertical mill in half. And it is solid. Like there are not air pockets or not bubbles. There's nothing. It is solid. and it's, it's interesting. the, potential for that,
I don't know that I would ever get to a point where I need to print a part out of metal like that, but it is a possibility.
Phil Huber (45:27.657) super cool.
Phil Huber (45:32.899) All right, I think that's a good stopping point. If you have any questions, comments, or smart remarks, you can leave them on the comment section on our YouTube channel or send us an email, Woodsmith@woodsmith.com. Questions for today's episode, like what are your pragmatic solutions that you've come up with for projects? Do oak trees hybridize?
Phil Huber (45:59.331) And how do you keep from, how do you pick up a project you've set aside for a while? And then finally, it's all word problems today. Is there a 3D digital woodworking tool that you've had your eye on? 3D printing, laser, CNC router.
Whatever. Miami Sound Machine.
All of that. I'd like to know about that. So you can put that in the comment section. We can address that in future episodes. Special thanks to Titebond, who have been instrumental in helping us keep our stuff together at Woodsmith for 45 years. So we'll see you next week, everybody. Bye.
