ShopNotes Podcast Episode 219: How Do I Get a Thick Leg (That Looks Good On All Four Sides)?
1. Listener Questions and Feedback
Logan shares updates on the "Jointer Saga," comparing vintage tools like the Moak jointer with modern options. He explores practical considerations for shop layout and shares tips for maintaining antique tools, such as rust removal techniques.
2. Desk Designs
This marks the second podcast where Logan is recording from the office in his shop. He's working on a desk for that space. While he originally wanted a different style, the window and door casing, a Limbert bookcase, drew him into a more Arts & Crafts design. His current plan is making one inspired by a Stickley desk.
Check out some plans we have for desks at Woodsmith Plans.
Craftsman Desk Legs and Lock Miter Joinery
One of the important parts of Logan's desk is creating legs that have quartersawn grain on all four faces. This is impossible with solid stock. The solution Logan is using is joining four pieces with a lock miter router bit. He's faced with the challenges with material quirks (e.g., burr oak’s tendency to chip) and design decisions for panel construction are discussed.
Quartersawn boards have flat sawn edges that can be distracting on table and desk tops. We discussed solutions and simply being aware of the issues when choosing materials.
A final consideration is the finish. That's especially the case where there are different finishes being used in the office already. The discussion touched on finishes for Stickley-inspired designs, from shellac to Danish oil, balancing style consistency with diverse aesthetics.
Woodsmith Shop Season 19 Updates
Updates on magazine and TV show projects, including an outdoor garden tower with intricate lattice panels. These projects highlight the integration of traditional woodworking techniques with contemporary content creation.
Questions, Comments, Smart Remarks
The ShopNotes Podcast encourages listeners to share their own stories, questions, or feedback by emailing woodsmith@woodsmith.com or leaving comments on the ShopNotes Podcast YouTube channel.
Episode Transcript
Phil (00:30.666) It's that time again. It's the shop notes podcast. This is episode number 219. I'm your host Phil Huber along with Logan Whitmer and John Doyle today. The usual cast of suspects. We're going to be talking about design details, current projects and magazines, and an update on the Jointer Saga. It's kind of like one of those old Viking tales except involving giant cast iron antique fern or a
Power tools. So you want to stick around for that. Thanks everybody for listening to this episode. Want to give a little shout out here. This episode of the shop notes podcast is sponsored by Harvey industries. Good enough is not good enough. See all of our tools at harveywoodworking.com.
Phil (01:24.64) I also want to extend invitation to folk out there. I'll put a link to it in the show notes page. But we're doing an England tour this year later in September. So if you missed out on the opportunity for last year's tour, you want to check that out. I'm going to be going Mike Peckovich from Fine Woodworking is going to be coming along as well. We have a full itinerary. You can check that out at the link on the website. So
Hope you join us. Come along.
All right, let's get started with the usual tradition, our tradition of reading through some comments from previous episodes. Mike Koff says, the jointer journey, great story. Had me on the edge of my seat the whole time. Woodtick Greg says, wow, Logan's jointer story. What an emotional roller coaster ride.
Daniel else says this episode reminds us just how much you guys are like the rest of us hole saws electrical tools the world of DIY
And I think I'm taking that as a very strong comment or compliment.
Papa's workshop, awesome tale. did not fast forward through it. Hope it all turns out well for Logan.
Phil (01:21.545) Puppy doc says, so did I hear Logan say he was going to acquire another lathe something about trading the stolen joiner for a self bend lathe? Hi, my name is Logan and I have a problem. then Kevin Thomas. Kevin Thomas, probably not the same guy from this old house says Peyton place shop notes edition.
Logan (01:36.399) I did imply that.
Phil (01:53.123) There you go.
Phil (01:58.551) Alright, so any updates on the jointer? Nope.
Logan (02:07.727) The Moac is in the shop.
Phil (02:10.06) Okay.
Logan (02:11.407) It is, I think I, well, we were on a call, Phil, and I showed a video flash to you. I think there is no way that this 24 inch will fit in here. At least not as the shop is configured. It's just.
Phil (02:18.776) Yes.
John Doyle (02:28.917) Cut a little niche in the wall.
Logan (02:29.335) like, I mean, I was standing here looking at it like, well, maybe I put it up against the wall where I was playing on the metal lathe going. And then that means I don't have outfeed because the big band saw is there, but maybe I moved the big band saw to the other side of the wall. It's just, you know, you know what? Standing here looking at the 16 inch jointer, this thing's beautiful. Like this thing is, I like this style of this Moac jointer.
Phil (02:30.915) There you go.
Logan (03:00.335) I'm like 24 inches just overcompensating. Like, don't need that. Don't need it.
John Doyle (03:07.145) hear me out, 24 inch vertical joiner. So you like stand it on end, you can just like run short pieces through, I don't know.
Phil (03:11.498) Hahaha
Logan (03:12.975) Yeah, yep, so yeah, so the
Phil (03:19.725) thought you were going to say vertical like wall mounted so that it's just flat and you just got to.
John Doyle (03:22.612) Yeah. yeah. There's something.
Logan (03:24.576) Yeah. Yeah. Yup. Yeah. So I actually talked to my guy, Sam over at WGM Tool Works yesterday. They have a drawing for a Moac helical head, but he's like, you know, these vintage manufacturers change designs all the time.
So he's like, I'm gonna send you the drawing. We need you to like tear it apart and verify that it's the right one. So I'm like, do I try to fire it up with this straight knife head in it at least once before I tear it apart? I mean, that's kind of what I'm thinking. I mean, the problem is with it being a director, you have to put like a...
Phil (03:57.526) Okay.
Phil (04:05.869) I don't know, why not?
Logan (04:15.343) like bearing puller on the end to get the motor to come out. Like there's a lot that has to come off for this head to come out. So kind of like, well, maybe I just like, cause he's like, you know, he's like, we don't stock 16 inch moac jointers. Like we have to machine one for you. He's like, no problem. We'll do it. But like, he's like, you're gonna have to wait for it a little bit. I'm like, that's fine.
Phil (04:20.266) sure.
Phil (04:34.595) Yeah.
John Doyle (04:41.937) That sounds like a cha-ching.
Phil (04:45.027) I've been, I mean, you've been waiting on the 24 inch jointer for like two and a half years now, so.
Logan (04:45.315) Yeah.
Ha ha ha!
I know, I know. I know.
John Doyle (04:54.17) You have some like wide boards that are waiting to be jointed. Just like,
Logan (04:57.263) They are, yep. Full crotch, full crotch boards.
Phil (05:08.109) I will say when you did show us on that call the other day, the MoAC in place, I do really like the look of that jointer. a very nice looking machine. And I feel like it does fit really well with your Powermatic planer. Like they make a great pair.
Logan (05:17.807) The three-legged joiners are really cool.
Yeah.
Logan (05:30.383) It they nest together really nicely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They nest together really nicely. Quite honestly. I would like a little bit bigger planer, but I just don't think that that is going to happen, nor should it happen in the space.
Phil (05:48.547) Yeah.
Logan (05:50.863) I mean, maybe like, so the problem with the power, so this is the Powermatic 180. So they have the Powermatic 100, 180, and 220. So it was basically a 12 inch and 18 inch and a 24 inch of this size planer. And the design, the power unit sticks off to, as you're the operator, the power unit, the motor sticks to the left-hand side.
So it kind of sticks out like in the open space. It's kind of in the way where if you look at some older planers like a Fey and Egan, any of the other vintage planer manufacturers, the motors were all pretty much tucked underneath the base. So like you might have a wider planer that has the same footprint. So maybe I could see that happening.
Phil (06:25.613) Yeah.
Logan (06:43.553) at some point, something that has a little bit more compact footprint. But not at this time, it's not going to happen.
Phil (06:43.693) Yeah.
Phil (06:53.241) Yeah. But I mean like an 18 inch joiner or 16 inch joiner, 18 inch planer. Like that's a, that's a good pairing. Yeah. Plus the eight.
Logan (06:58.819) They make sense. Yeah. So when I go to sell it, I sell it as a bundle and then I bring the bigger stuff in.
Phil (07:08.397) Right, there you go.
Phil (07:12.659) after you do an entire workshop reconfiguration, like the world's heaviest tile puzzle.
Logan (07:22.125) Yeah. I was thinking.
Logan (07:28.59) like it would be a little crazy but you could put like the 16 or the 24 inch jointer would fit really nicely next to the table saw.
Like that's a lot of unused real estate. Now I use that for camera equipment all the time. So I can't do that in, you know, with what I do every day, but like if I ever stopped doing camera stuff, like heck yeah, put that bad boy right there. If I stopped doing camera stuff, I could do whatever I wanted in the shop from a layout standpoint, but not gonna happen.
Phil (07:42.979) Sure.
Right.
Phil (08:00.023) Right. But.
If you put the joiner on that side going from like jointing to planing, then all of a sudden you have like transportation issues.
Logan (08:09.281) Yes, issue.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I will say having that, I'm pretty sure, I don't remember what Jameel Abraham's has, or Jameel Abrams has for Jointer. I think it's either a Porter or a Moac, something along those lines, because we have a, there's a.
Phil (08:34.686) yeah.
Logan (08:40.195) There's a popular woodworking blog post from him several years ago talking about, you know, how it's the best workbench he's ever had. Because it's like, he's like, yeah, you see my jointer? It's acting like a workbench right now or something along those lines.
Phil (08:51.225) you
Logan (08:59.343) Having that thing sit right next to the planer is a really good landing spot for like planing boards. It's like feed it through, grab it, set it on the jointer because it's right there and it's a big cast iron surface. Nope, nope. So it is is pretty cool though. I do like that tripod style. Moac did it. I think American Machine Company did it. Porter, the Porter did it.
Phil (09:10.797) Yeah, it's not going to tip over.
Logan (09:29.199) There were a few of them that did that style. So the only one I think that looks better, I like the Oliver 166 jointers or the Oliver style jointers. They have two pedestals. They have a pedestal under the left-hand right-hand side. But...
It's, it is, it's very cool. tables cleaned up beautifully. The tables had some surface rust on them. And I think I've mentioned this before, like I bought this surfacing tool from Harbor freight. It's basically a handheld drum sander. It uses these big drums.
Phil (10:06.872) Okay.
Logan (10:07.212) and they're like flap drums kind of, but if you put the stripping drum on there for like stripping paint and stuff, it surfaces cast iron beautifully and it just peels off rust. So.
Phil (10:17.837) Okay.
Phil (10:23.161) Hmm. That'd be cool.
Phil (10:28.665) Alright, we'll put a link to that tool in the show notes page as well.
Let's see, John, how about an update from you?
John Doyle (10:40.915) knew you were going to ask me questions. Seems like we've just been kind of hitting the TV show pretty hard here the last few months. So that's kind of been the main thing for me. And then when we're not filming, it's like trying to catch up on my real job. It's like, what do I got going on this week?
Phil (10:43.286) you
John Doyle (11:04.967) Reader's Tips, I think, got coming up. So that's the thing, the closest burner. So it's always fun.
Phil (11:19.449) Yeah, we're doing a couple of outdoor projects for the episode that we're filming this week. and in a strange twist of fate, we're actually filming a project before it appears in the magazine. Even though, yeah, even though by the time the episode airs, it will then have appeared in the magazine. Yes. Yeah.
John Doyle (11:34.44) So hopefully it all works out.
Logan (11:36.415) Yeah. I say the timeline self corrects. So yeah.
Phil (11:45.645) Yeah, Loki's back there just pulling on different threads. He's going to get it sorted.
John Doyle (11:46.014) I feel like.
Logan (11:48.729) Yep. Yep.
John Doyle (11:49.542) Yeah, I feel like did we have a project maybe last season that was either just been published or was in the process of being published? yeah. Yeah, because I think the one that we made on the TV show ended up being the one photographed because it was all set up in the shop there. So it was kind of co-happening between the TV show and the. So maybe eventually we can sync up and it's just like one.
Phil (11:57.293) Yeah, the drill press table.
John Doyle (12:19.047) doing it one time and it's just magazine, TV show, everything.
Who knows?
Phil (12:28.547) B-Cross on the streams.
John Doyle (12:32.837) It's impossible.
Phil (12:32.899) So the other project that we have is a garden tower that Chris designed.
he built it or he did a prototype of it, designed it, and we featured in the magazine and it's a really cool project and you do kind of lattice panels on each of the four sides. So there's a lot of angled cutting that goes on. So even though it's a really, I would say a relatively simple project, there are a ton of steps in terms of cutting angle dados and half laps and stuff like that.
John Doyle (13:10.011) Yeah, that's one of those that you gotta stay on your toes as far as your lefts and your rights and which way it's angling and all that stuff so you don't end up with all right sides or left sides.
Phil (13:28.483) There's a finial on the top that Chris did on the original as just a band song thing, but we're going to have a special guest appearance by Logan on this episode to turn one. So yes. Surprise. Well, Bailey was trying to call you and let you know that.
Logan (13:43.149) We are.
John Doyle (13:45.262) Surprise!
Logan (13:47.053) When's that happening?
John Doyle (13:49.134) Right now, the cameras are pulling in.
Phil (13:53.899) She wanted you to do, I think it was just gonna be some B-roll. So not really as a segment. So, right. This is how we plan our TV shows. From what you see on the broadcast on your local public television station, looks like we know what we're doing. When in reality, we sorta just scratch it out in the dirt and then just run with it.
Logan (13:59.629) Okay, so we can have it one day.
John Doyle (14:20.492) It's all smoke and mirrors and editing.
Phil (14:24.557) Yep. Yep. So we have a, we have that kind of guinea pig cage smell in here with the Western red cedar being chipped up around. So, which as we all know, Western red cedar is not a cedar. It's a Cypress.
Logan (14:46.191) and eastern red cedar is a juniper.
Phil (14:48.803) Right.
Logan (14:51.087) you
Phil (14:52.397) That was one of my favorite discoveries of 2024 is we did that trip out to Washington to the global headquarters of Grizzly. And then I picked up a book on trees of the Northwest or something like that, kind of as a souvenir of the trip and was reading that on the plane and found out that there are no native Cedars in North America.
Logan (15:08.696) Mm-hmm.
Phil (15:24.227) So Western Red Cedar, Cypress. Alaska Yellow Cedar, Cypress.
John Doyle (15:31.385) Isn't that true about fir trees too? Are they like the only real fir trees are in Lebanon or something like that? I don't know. I think I learned that in college.
Phil (15:38.745) no, I think we could be. I don't know.
Phil (15:49.561) I think we're not doing fur anymore.
Logan (15:53.155) No, it's all faux fur.
Phil (15:53.453) Do what, like, faux fur, yeah.
John Doyle (15:57.304) is real fur, that's cruel.
Logan (15:58.063) The downfall of our society. Don't get me started on this.
John Doyle (16:01.302) you
And go.
Logan (16:05.773) hahahahah
John Doyle (16:09.281) you
Phil (16:11.897) All right. Perfect. So anyway, lot of Cedar, lot of Titebond III getting applied around here. So my, it will be a delight to watch Logan turn a finial because it'll have to be a Cedar finial. So.
Logan (16:25.167) Hmm.
Logan (16:29.015) My favorite Chippy wood.
Phil (16:31.255) Yep. So out of curiosity, just because I don't turn much and any turning that I do is just with carbide turning tools, AKA scrapers. For something like a softwood like cedar in order to turn it, do you just have to just crank that baby up and do it at a high speed?
Logan (16:54.413) Yep, and a skew chisel. Yep, that's probably how I'm gonna do that is crank it as high as it will go. Probably rough it down with a roughing gouge. I mean, I could rough it down with a skew chisel, but the cleanest cuts will come with skew chisel for sure. yeah, so not get real fancy with it.
Phil (17:12.281) Okay. Yeah.
Cause we had, right. We had done some prototyping of outdoor projects years and years ago. And I have it as shop art in my workshop, Cedar, finial. mean, it's a ball that's like, you know, a little bit smaller than a volleyball probably size on a, that has, comes down to a base.
And then another one that I think is more like acorn shaped or something. And I've always wondered how those got turned. I mean, they're probably done on basically CNC lathes or whatever, but.
Logan (17:52.931) Yeah, yeah, a lot of times what you'll see is you'll see like a ball mill, like in a router turning as the piece is turning as well. So you're, so you kind of have this like router lathe type combination thing going on.
Phil (18:03.938) sure.
Phil (18:10.445) Yeah. Okay.
Logan (18:12.655) Yeah.
Phil (18:16.089) All right. All right. Now, before we started our broadcast here, the recording, Logan, you were talking about, since this is your second podcast now in the, in your office, about some of your desk designs. Cause I think originally you were going to go with a different style of desk and then based on the, trim that you put up.
Logan (18:28.813) Yeah.
Logan (18:33.923) Yeah.
Phil (18:45.879) right there behind you, the window trim casings, decided to go with more of a stickly, craftsman-ish version.
Logan (18:53.037) Yeah. Yeah, like I, I'm a huge fan of the shaker style. and shaker stuff super fast to build generally very simple, right? I mean, it was, it was designed for like mass production. So I was just going to do like a little desk kind of based loosely upon the splayed leg shaker table. did a couple of years ago.
You know, just tapered legs, apron, maybe a drawer, maybe two drawers if I get crazy, and a top. But then I'm like, okay, that would look a little odd in this office where everything is oak. I have a limber bookcase here next to me. You know, I have been keeping an eye out for like a prairie or craftsman style couch to go back here.
Phil (19:37.974) yeah.
Logan (19:45.239) I guess it's just gonna look like hodgepodge out of place. So instead, let's use a bunch of this bur oak that I've cut that's quarter sawn. Maybe not the highest grade stuff because it is bur oak. It's not a super high quality white oak, but it's very cool looking. Like let's use some of that and make a stickly style desk. So I found a picture of a vintage stickly piece that I really like.
and I'm loosely basing this design on, like I'm looking, so the only things I have are photos from an auction where this thing sold. And I'm reading the dimensions off and I'm like 36 inches deep by 72 inches long. Like this is a big giant fricking rectangle top.
Phil (20:29.091) Whoa.
Logan (20:33.839) And I, so while I was waiting for everybody to get on the podcast, I'm like in here with a tape measure measuring it. I'm like, this SOB is going to be so big. Like it's going to take, it's going to dominate this entire room. So I am currently, um, whipping a UE and I'm going to go smaller, much smaller, not much smaller, but I am going to go like, I think 30 inches on the top. So.
Phil (20:59.617) Okay. Yeah.
Logan (21:01.935) I'm going to give myself probably an inch overhang on the back. Um, so that way the top can butt right up against the wall. You know, do I'm going to do the standard kind of Corbel, the stickly Corbel styles on the ends. Um, so I'll have overhang left and right, a little bit overhang on the back, a couple of inches of overhang on the front. Um, but. You know, most, most stickly furniture and mo you know, all vintage desks.
are adorned with drawers left and right. So you have, you know, kind of the three drawer system or maybe a small drawer and then two deep drawers on each side. I think I'm trying to figure out and I'm going to have to get back into a SketchUp model because I lost my SketchUp model I had. I must not have saved it, which was really annoying because it was almost all done.
I think instead of doing drawers on both sides, the left-hand side, it's gonna be the same size as the drawer cubbies on the right, but instead of doing drawers, I'm gonna do a swing out door so I can put like my small computer in there.
John Doyle (22:52.974) Mm-hmm.
John Doyle (23:08.624) yeah, that'd work good. Because usually, mean, for modern laptops and stuff like that, don't need the drawers and stuff. need a...
Logan (23:11.255) Like, it...
Logan (23:17.165) Well, and yeah, and my work computer is a little Mac box. It's a Mac studio, so it's small. My personal PC is small. It would fit in there.
Then it requires probably bringing some form of ventilation in there. So it's like, okay, do I, can I figure out some form of slat front that looks like a craftsman style front, you know, that has slats on it or something? I don't know. Well, we'll, we'll, we'll have to play around with some stuff and see, but I think that's where I'm going. So it's going to be like modern stickly style. I guess a stickly style for the modern office. Yeah. Yeah. So.
John Doyle (23:40.236) Yeah.
Phil (23:43.437) Maybe.
Phil (23:54.039) Yes. There you go.
Phil (23:59.641) Cause are the sides frame and panel.
Logan (24:03.597) Sides or frame and panel? Yep, sides and back are frame and panel.
Phil (24:07.545) So you could do maybe like a frame and panel on the sides, but then have a little bit of a air gap between the panel and the rail or something. So you could, you know, a couple of holes in the bottom or.
Logan (24:16.879) Yeah, I was actually thinking like doing for the front door, instead of doing like a frame and panel front door, do a bunch of styles, right? A bunch of vertical styles that are half-lapped together, but the half-laps are big enough that it's actually a gap, but you can't see the gap, so it could pull air through it. I don't know. This is all a work of progress, yeah.
Phil (24:31.864) Yeah.
Phil (24:39.199) Okay.
and be kind of a feature. I like that. Yeah.
Logan (24:47.501) Yeah, yeah, so I don't know. We'll see, we'll see. It's probably gonna require a bunch of mockups. Thankfully this Baroque is not chippy at all. It doesn't like to tear out. God, I've been fighting these locked miters. Stupidest thing ever.
John Doyle (25:04.565) Just pick some open knot holes for air ventilation in there.
Phil (25:04.867) That's what I was gonna.
Logan (25:08.483) That's right. Yeah.
Phil (25:10.371) Yeah. That's what I was going to ask you about next is cause you had talked about, you were in the studio here the other day and were lamenting the woes of the lock miter router bit, which we're not calling out anybody specific lock miter bit. This is a broad brushed screed against the joint as a whole.
Logan (25:24.707) Yep.
Logan (25:29.08) Nope.
Yep.
Yep.
Logan (25:38.147) Yes, I think in concept it's a beautiful joint. I think if you were building stuff out of MDF, heck yeah, use the crap out of it. But it is so finicky to set up. I think it works really well. I have two of the four legs when I glued them up were beautiful. Two of the four were not.
Phil (25:42.883) Okay.
Phil (25:50.169) Sure.
Logan (26:07.649) was that small variance in material thickness? Did the bit slip a little bit? Your guess is as good as mine is. I don't know. So I got a workaround on it. They look great. I just actually, before we podcasted, was sanding the legs. look great. They look as great as...
Phil (26:08.409) you
Logan (26:33.197) rustic number three bur oak can look because there is some little swirlies and weird stuff in there, but you know, they look good. But yeah, it's like the idea behind that lock miter is that it's a miter joint, but the tongue locks everything together so it doesn't slip. It's easy to clamp. It's one setup to make all the parts. They don't tell you that there's about 14 setups before that final setup.
Phil (26:55.139) Great.
Logan (27:01.601) as you're testing everything. And like, got the setup down packed, I think. Like, it's like, you make a cut, you cut it apart, slip it back together, see if it's flush, do the same thing with the face. Like, you can get it there. It's just, I know, to be completely honest, I know a lot of the issue is coming because of this Baroque, because it is not an easy material to work with.
So if I was doing this out of like walnut or cherry, I don't think I'd have any issues.
Phil (27:34.359) Yeah. And if you don't, if you have relatively straight grained material that doesn't wave around even within the board. Yeah. I mean, part of the issue with that joint is not only is it forming an interlocking joint between the two pieces, but it's also trying to plow away a lot of waste material at the same time.
Logan (27:38.735) correct.
correct.
Logan (27:54.04) Mm-hmm.
Logan (28:01.359) And that's maybe the bigger issue with this Baroque is you're taking out huge chunks. You're basically mitering whatever your thickness is. This particular bit I'm using can do, I think, what did it say, between 3 eighths and like 7 eighths material. So imagine mitering that. You're taking off a lot of material and you're doing it all in one big chunk. So it wants to tear it.
Phil (28:25.89) Yeah, like
Yeah. So who of who among us would, or in any kind of router advice, are you going to say, Hey, you need to route a three quarter inch chamfer one pass, just do it in one pass. It's fine.
Logan (28:40.459) Exactly. Yeah. And I am also doing this on my new Harvey Shaper. So it's turning at 11,000 RPM instead of, you know, maybe 18,000 RPM. So it's also, that's not helping, but the setup was much better there than it was at the router table. So yeah, it's, it's fun.
Phil (28:48.782) Okay.
Logan (29:09.741) But, and people might be like, well, why don't you just cut the legs out of solid stock? I didn't, Karen, because I wanted quarter sawn faces on every face. Plus, I need something extra to talk about in the article, right? Like I need to be able, I don't need to, but like being able to expand out on this project with this technique article is a good tie-in. So, it just is like.
painless technique.
Phil (29:42.401) Yeah. Now, John, we've talked about and done some projects in the magazine and on the TV show, Craftsman Style, where we've tried to do, to get that quarter sawn figure on all four faces. And we've done it in different ways too, right?
John Doyle (29:59.438) Yeah, yeah, I was trying to think of we did the the library table and I don't remember if that was the way Logan is showing now where it's like all mitered together. The other times we've taken quarter sawn boards and then kind of like veneered the sides with, you know, eighth inch quarter sawn material and kind of wrap it that way. And yeah, it's always a struggle of how do I get a thick leg?
Phil (30:17.646) Right.
John Doyle (30:29.86) you know, that looks good on four sides. What? THIK, not THICC, thick. So.
Logan (30:33.549) Black beans and rice, John. That's how.
Phil (30:36.025) you
Phil (30:40.759) Right. I believe we have found our title for the podcast episode.
Logan (30:44.399) So like, don't know if those joints show up at all on there or not, but this particular bit is a little oversized in the locking area where they call it a glue relief. So it's like, so the glue doesn't hold the joint apart.
Phil (30:51.267) Yep.
Phil (31:05.838) Sure.
Logan (31:06.883) But yeah, the idea is that every face is quarter sawn instead of, you would have quarter sawn on two faces and then flat sawn on the others. Or if you do like riffs on, then you can maybe get like quarter sawn on two faces and riffs on on the others. It's just, it's a very...
tedious thing. I'm very happy with how they look and I chamfered the edges slightly. The problem, the biggest problem I'm running into with this bur oak I saw in the area is stuff like that where it just chips out a little bit on the edge what would be that very sharp edge so I have a little bit of gap that's gonna need some filling. Thankfully we got a video coming up with
Phil (31:46.636) yep.
Logan (31:58.083) Durham's water putty to have plenty of props for.
John Doyle (32:01.429) You
Phil (32:05.209) Well, I will say that this issue isn't limited to making large furniture legs either, because if you're going to use quarter sawn white oak or quarter sawn red oak, whatever on a project, say, well, for example, like the top of your desk, if you find really nice quarter sawn boards for the top and you have a top that's probably going to be like an inch, inch and a quarter thick.
Logan (32:25.635) Yeah.
Logan (32:33.763) Yeah. Yep.
Phil (32:34.305) Maybe if to make it look substantial. Now that front edge of your desk is flats on. So it's like, what do you do there? Do you put a strip on that? You know, I think that's one of those things that sneaks up on people when they're building a project because they're picking out the boards based on that show face more or less. And then all of a sudden you get it done and you're like, geez, like, look at that edge. And, and there it is.
Logan (32:41.184) Yup.
Logan (32:49.337) Yeah.
Logan (32:58.859) And yeah, I'm looking at the vintage one, flipping through the photos. That's exactly how the vintage ones are. There is a Plainshawn face, big old cathedrals right on that front edge. It's like, aw, duh.
Phil (33:11.395) Yeah.
And it takes away from, takes away from the look of it, if that's what you're going for. So you either have to account for it somewhere or, you know, find riffs on where you get 45 degrees. So you can at least get riffs on, on that front edge.
Logan (33:14.723) But it's... Yeah.
Logan (33:28.931) Yeah, yeah, but looking at like, you know, the drawer framework around the drawer fronts, those are all flats on as well. You know, it's just one of those things. It's like, who's got time to mess with that?
Phil (33:45.699) We've got to draw the line somewhere.
Logan (33:47.715) Yeah. Yup. But I've, I do really enjoy this material because it has just, it has a great color. It's, it's like us, very quirky, you know? You don't, it's like, like this could be really cool, but it's not quite there yet. I know. So like, I do really, I do really like it.
Phil (34:03.532) you
John Doyle (34:08.095) Yeah, that's us. That's us.
Phil (34:13.11) except
Logan (34:16.463) the next thing is gonna be like.
How do you finish it to make the most out of it? Do you do a stickly finishing schedule or arts and crafts finishing schedule like we did on this limber on TV show? Do I do something that's just super simple like doing a medium walnut Danish oil on it? I do a, I do like, so whenever it seems to be, and I could be wrong on this, but it seems to be that whenever Mike does any.
of his craftsman style stuff. He's just shellacking stuff generally. Which, yeah, and like I kind of like that look too, so maybe I do that. But then I end up with like, again, I'll end up with all this different colored furniture in the office, which doesn't really matter, but.
Phil (34:52.823) Yes, shellac and water locks.
Phil (35:06.967) No, but I mean, at least you have the unifying theme that the style of all the pieces have a family resemblance, whereas the specific color reflects either the piece itself or just the diversity within that look. So I think that part makes it coherent. Whereas I think,
Logan (35:09.933) Yeah. Yep.
Phil (35:30.217) If you had everything exactly the same color in a small room like that would feel a little too embassy suites.
Logan (35:37.931) Yeah, that's fair. That is fair.
Phil (35:45.881) So all right, cool.
Logan (35:49.721) Yeah.
Phil (35:51.865) So I know you're doing this for a magazine project for Popwood. Do you get to a point, like when you're struggling with the, with the lock miter joint, where all of a sudden you're just like, and we're going to cover up the camera because we don't want to see this part.
Logan (36:05.551) No, because I can get the... I guess that's maybe the more frustrating part is that the issues I'm having are my own, like just getting into workflow and just not paying attention. I think that is the bigger issue. The chipping you can't get away from. You can't get away from that. But like, you know, if I'm just, you know, got... So I've been wearing these. This is not sponsored at all, but these are one of my favorite things.
these 3M headphones, they're Bluetooth. So like I've been wearing those just listening to music or having a TV show going on in the background, you know, as I'm working and I'll be, you know, singing, singing along in my head and I'll be like, oh, that board's drifting up a little bit. I'm not keeping enough down pressure, even though I got like feather boards and roller guides and stuff in the, you know, in place. But like, I guess that's more of my issue. Like,
If I'm diligent about it, it works fine. It's just, you have to be on your A game to get it to work fine. So, no, I will show the setup and how I got the setup done because, know, like this one, glue lines on this guy, perfect. Absolutely perfect. There's only that one area of chip out and that was just the material. That's not anything I can control necessarily. So,
I don't mind showing it because yeah, like if you follow the setup, no problem.
Phil (37:37.687) Yeah. So when you have a leg like that where it ends up being hollow, when you start joining other components to it, do you add filler blocks to the inside or are you just going with? OK.
Logan (37:47.939) Nah, I won't. Because my stub tenons are gonna be 3 1⁄8 of an inch. So there's plenty of material there still. And I'm not plowing a groove the whole length of the leg, it's only going maybe half of it. So I know a lot of people will add filler blocks, but if I was going to go back and add filler blocks at this point, I would probably bevel all the corners.
Phil (37:54.243) Sure.
Phil (37:58.315) yeah.
Phil (38:05.059) Yeah.
Logan (38:17.367) chamfer all the corners on that filler block and drive it in from the end because there's, know, glue squeeze out in the corners. So, but no, I'm not, I'm not going to mess around with that. don't, this leg's already like seven pounds the way it is. So yeah.
Phil (38:21.196) Okay.
Right.
Phil (38:34.137) I was just curious, because I think it would come up as a thought, you know, if somebody wanted to do, you know, your standard quote unquote mortise and tenon construction, if you're going to put an inch and a quarter long tenon in there, then there's, you know,
Logan (38:47.923) yeah, I yeah, I get what saying with them. Yeah. Yeah, I get what you're saying. Yeah, if you were, if you had a big tenant going in there, then maybe, but then I think at that point though, and I don't know, I'd have to sit down and draw out the expansion and contraction because I think you'd be fighting that. Cause then you have, you have like, this is not a real way that a tree grows. So like.
Phil (38:56.387) Right.
Phil (39:07.244) Sure.
Phil (39:13.369) Wait, what?
Logan (39:15.681) I know, so the expansion and contraction right now is kind of circular. So I don't know, like if you'd run into some expansion and contraction issues, you might. But right now with the way that leg is built, it's very stable at least. So plus anything over a three quarter inch tenon, you're just showing off.
Phil (39:41.465) Fair. I mean, you get to do through mortise and tendon on that and nobody has to worry about what the outside looks like because it's just, it's through to the inside. all right. One final question on the desk is, are you going to use your new favorite technique in that you have the burr oak leg pieces? Will you use red oak plywood panels to connect them?
Logan (39:49.263) That's That's right.
Logan (40:06.647) No, absolutely not. All the panels are gonna be solid wood. All the panels are gonna be solid wood because my favorite tool now is my 36 inch bandsaw with a carbon tip blade.
And I think the last issue of the magazine, I did an article on setting up a resaw, like setting up your saw to resaw. So, you know, the blade, the guides, and then Ivan went as far as to grab a micrometer and resaw a piece and then put a mic on it. And like, you can get within like a thousandth of an inch, which like the kerf, the teeth scores on the surface of the material are more than that.
So it's a, know, I'm going to do all solid wood panels. will all be broke. see John Doyle judging me silently.
Phil (40:47.833) sure.
Phil (40:54.369) Okay.
John Doyle (40:55.958) Yeah, no, I'm squirming in my seat because I did it again, mixing materials last week's project that you were working on for the TV show, the sawtooth or whatever. Where it's like all it's all painted and most of it was popular and I was just grabbing stuff out of the rack to like, you know, get this done. And then we get about done. And like, you're like, I think this this is a popular I think this is basswood. Like, so there's like
Logan (41:06.012) You did! I forgot about that. It's painted though, it doesn't matter.
Phil (41:09.186) Logan (41:16.751) you
Logan (41:24.207) What?
John Doyle (41:24.404) one piece of basswood in there. And then just the top loft we had like Alder for the drawer fronts and the back panel. And then for the saw holder, it was like a half inch piece that wasn't sitting right. So then I glued a piece of cherry to the back of that to hold it up. It's like this is for Logan. Because cherry looks like Alder, but not quite. I just grabbed it out of the trash can and was like, just going to glue this on the back here.
Phil (41:44.717) Mm-hmm. Yep.
Logan (41:47.439) Yeah, I was sanding something and I'm like, man, this is the nicest working poplar I've ever used. Like it's not burning. It's sanding like Styrofoam like I was on the edge sander. Like this stuff is like Styrofoam. Like this is like sanding balsa wood. And I'm like, that's because this is a poplar. What the heck?
John Doyle (41:54.373) I'll know it's there.
John Doyle (42:17.255) Yeah, that happens sometimes when we're trying to get it done, just grabbing stuff out of the rack and, you know.
Logan (42:19.974) Yeah, well, like, to be honest with you, if it's painted, I don't care what I'm, like, that's why I was like, whatever. But when it's like getting stained and I know that that grain's gonna look different, nobody else is gonna notice but me.
John Doyle (42:24.86) Yeah.
John Doyle (42:32.616) Yeah.
Phil (42:40.281) Perfect. Just perfect.
Logan (42:44.364) It wasn't, but that's what made it great.
Phil (42:46.487) Yeah, I'll put a photo of it on the show notes page so you can see our, let's call it mixed media saw till, paint grade edition. So.
Logan (42:54.926) Yeah.
John Doyle (43:00.396) have that in the magazine like on the back page is like a little highlights it's like what what what doesn't belong here what's wrong in this picture see people can spot it
Phil (43:09.933) how many different wood species can you find on this saw till?
Logan (43:14.127) I will tell you, like the number of posts I see on Facebook that are like, hey, what wood is this? The number of varied answers that people get. It's like, I'm looking at it, I'm like, that is freaking black walnut. Anybody that would say anything different. And then they're like, I think that's tulip poplar. Or, you know, I have some ambrosia maple that looks like that. I'm like, you guys are idiots. Like.
John Doyle (43:34.747) Yeah.
John Doyle (43:42.545) And that's what the internet's for.
Logan (43:42.755) Like what the heck? It is. And I just don't even like, I'm like nope, not gonna, not gonna even fight that. Yep.
John Doyle (43:50.607) Yep. Keep scrolling.
Phil (43:57.507) There you go. Clock behind me says that it's time to wrap things up here. That's it for another episode of the shop notes podcast. Special thanks to Harvey industrial for supporting the show. You could check out their full line of tools at Logan's shop or online at harveywoodworking.com questions, comments, smart remarks. want to hear from you. can send us an email woodsmith at woodsmith.com or put a comment in the YouTube.
version of the podcast. Don't forget to check out the show notes page where we'll have some photos and links of some of the things we've been talking about. Thanks everybody. See you next week. Bye.
