ShopNotes Podcast Episode 220: Oh Yeah, Woodworking Is Kinda Nice
1. Listener Questions and Feedback
The podcast depends on listener questions, comments, and smart remarks. Send them to woodsmith@woodsmith.com or put them in the comments section on our YouTube channel. While we may not get to every one in an episode, we read every one and they help drive the topics and conversation for future episodes.
Bandsaw Table Height
After spending a day at Logan's doing some video work, I noticed that the new Harvey bandsaw in his shop has a lower than typical table height.
Between Logan's shop and the shop at Woodsmith, we measured the various heights. Lower tables would seem to work better for resawing wide boards, while taller tables work better for tasks that require more finesse.
Grizzly: 37.5" PowerMatic 15: 40" Laguna 14": 45.5" Laguna 18bx: 38" Cresent 36": 41" Harvey 14": 36"
Tools That Elevate Woodworking
From snap ring pliers to easy-outs and pulley pullers, the episode highlights often-overlooked tools that can simplify woodworking tasks and boost efficiency. Logan stresses the importance of using the right tool for the job.
Planer Upgrade Adventures
Earlier this week, I filmed a video on replacing the cutterhead in my DeWalt 735 planer. The process was easier than I thought it would be. We did a before and after comparison of the noise. The new head is about 15db quieter. And of course the surface it left is magical.
Here's the upgraded cutter head.
2025 Woodworking Tour in England
Phil teases a woodworking tour in England later this year, inviting listeners to join him and Mike Peckovich for an exploration of English woodworking history and craftsmanship.
Episode Transcript
Phil (00:40.677) Hey everybody, it's the ShopNotes Podcast. It's episode number 220. 220, 221 whatever it takes we're gonna do it. I'm your host Phil Huber joined by Logan and John today we're gonna go through some listener comments as always we're also gonna check in on bandsaw options suggestions mystery topic and then we're also gonna talk about
tools that make woodworkers better, but that are probably a little, little surprising to you. So you want to make sure that you stick around for that. Thanks for listening everybody. Your efforts in subscribing to Woodsmith, Shop Notes, and Popular Woodworking is what makes this show possible. Also want to say that later this year in September,
I will be traveling to England to do a woodworking tour of some sites in England. And I would love for you to join me on that. Mike Peckovich, creative director over at Fine Woodworking is going to be coming along as well. So we're going to be checking out a few sites, learning about different aspects of English woodworking, both current and historical. We'll look at a few museums, check in on a couple of active shops and see some tools being made.
and designed and we would love to have you part of that you can check that out on at woodsmith.com today's episode is brought to you by Harvey Industries. Good enough is not good enough. See all of our new tools at harveywoodworking.com
Phil (02:29.305) All right. Checking in on last week's show.
John Doyle (02:32.905) I was gonna say I feel like Harvey's motto is like a direct defiance to like my motto. Where they say good enough is not good enough because I'm like good enough is good enough, you know.
Phil (02:43.093) Yeah.
John Doyle (02:48.799) I feel like that's like a direct shot at me. I don't know.
Phil (02:51.211) Right. The back half of this episode is brought to you by John Doyle. It's good enough.
John Doyle (02:56.362) That podcast was just good enough. It was perfectly adequate.
Phil (03:00.943) just good enough.
Phil (03:08.477) A couple of comments from last week's. I'm surprised that there weren't more comments on that one. That one's interesting to me. One is Logan, put the jointer next to the table saw and reconfigure your camera setup. Maybe hang the camera from a ceiling mount.
John Doyle (03:27.464) Yeah, I think we have some like track that from the old studio that we could set up in your studio or your shop and we run camera on.
Logan (03:35.253) I've looked at ceiling-mounted Gambriels that are so expensive. Especially since my ceilings are 14 foot. Like, yeah, you're way up there.
Phil (03:46.979) Yeah. I feel like that high up you, it would be a sucker to try and eliminate vibration.
John Doyle (03:58.537) Yeah.
Logan (03:58.753) Yeah. Yeah.
Phil (03:59.941) because I feel like the camera would just be constantly in motion.
Logan (04:03.137) Yep. Yep.
Although it makes me really want to have like a meat locker ceiling track in here, where I can just wheel stuff around, you know, mountain from the ceiling.
Phil (04:14.711) sure.
Phil (04:18.893) always possibility. Bob the Puppy Doc says, so Logan needs a desk for the office. I hear there's a 24 inch jointer looking for a home, large flat surface for writing, complete with built in paper shredder to dispose of the evidence. What more could he need?
John Doyle (04:40.114) Yeah, when you brought that in, when you first got it, I thought the base of it would make a pretty cool like workbench base.
Logan (04:49.491) and it might still.
John Doyle (04:51.398) Yeah. The problem is, since there's only four of them, it feels like there's historical significance there that needs to be put back together and restored. If it were just some random tool base that didn't have any use to it, it would be pretty cool.
Phil (04:52.229) You
Logan (05:03.083) restored.
Phil (05:05.882) Right.
Logan (05:10.327) Yeah.
Phil (05:15.789) I don't think that jointer would fit in your office either.
John Doyle (05:20.711) I have to cut a bigger door.
Logan (05:22.701) It would fit through the door. It would. It wouldn't be fun, but it would.
John Doyle (05:24.743) Not now.
Phil (05:26.158) Okay.
Phil (05:29.743) Pivot.
John Doyle (05:30.072) You just couldn't fit the forklift through your door.
Logan (05:34.369) Yes.
Phil (05:34.615) Yeah.
lifted in through the window.
John Doyle (05:42.981) I wonder with the low engagement on this last podcast, I think it's because we didn't mention ShopSmith one time.
Logan (05:51.147) It's probably true. Yeah.
Phil (05:51.599) That could be, yeah. I tried to do that deliberately is to not do a ShopSmith mention. And then here. Yeah.
John Doyle (05:55.193) Yeah.
And now I did it.
Logan (05:58.357) Well, because we got an email, yeah. We got an email saying, hey, you guys need to stop talking about shop Smith just so those people go away.
John Doyle (06:08.314) Right. The problem is like we were always like somebody always commented the podcast before about ShopSmith. So then we had to bring it back up. It was like it kept getting served up to us. I said it was like the chips and salsa at Mexican restaurants. Like I don't want anymore, but you keep bringing it. So we're going to keep eating it.
Logan (06:17.173) Yeah.
Phil (06:20.547) Right. And the
Phil (06:26.742) Hahaha
Phil (06:33.283) And then if you're going to write to us to tell us not to mention ShopSmith, we sort of have to mention shop Smith to say that we're not going to mention it.
Phil (06:43.045) There you go. I mean, it's not like I want the shop Smith listeners to go away. I want them here. Like this is all about woodworking. It's a big tent.
Logan (06:50.689) Yeah. We just like to make fun of them.
Phil (06:54.414) Right.
John Doyle (06:55.343) We need to bring something new to make fun of. We went through intarsia, cedar, and yeah.
Phil (06:58.329) Yeah.
Phil (07:03.968) Ash workbenches.
Logan (07:04.013) We get on the epoxy people.
John Doyle (07:07.609) Yeah, that's true. They're very angry group though. Very defensive. Maybe worse than Shopsmith.
Logan (07:11.932) They are.
Phil (07:16.953) Maybe.
Logan (07:17.143) They're probably the woke crowd.
John Doyle (07:18.944) Yeah. Wow. It's really stirring it up.
Phil (07:27.013) every little code word we can get out there.
John Doyle (07:28.546) No one's more woke than us, though. We are the wokenest woodworkers. Whatever that means.
Logan (07:30.357) Yep.
Logan (07:37.133) man.
Phil (07:40.665) Based on the letters I got a few years ago, yes.
John Doyle (07:42.872) Yeah. I think we even got one a couple months ago. Talking about, I remember what it was about some of our projects.
Logan (07:43.123) Mm-hmm. That's right.
Phil (07:50.069) yeah. Yep. All of our that's why our magazine wasn't doing as well as because of all the woke articles in it.
John Doyle (07:57.41) Mm-hmm.
Logan (07:57.665) Yeah. Hey, you know what?
Phil (08:04.951) Anyway, one of the things we talked about last week was your lock miter conundrums.
Logan (08:09.931) Yeah.
Phil (08:12.121) Did you, you figured out four legs then eventually, right?
Logan (08:17.323) yes, yes. Yeah, the four legs I have look great. There was just, if you look at the Popwood Instagram page, I don't Instagram very often, but usually when I do, it's to make fun of myself. And I had the original legs that I glued up that had a little bit of gap on the corners. I ended up routing a chamfer down the corners.
So there was not a sharp open miter. There was a flat face with a little bit of a gap in it. And actually a few of them when I, a few of them when I did chamfer it, the gap disappeared completely. So it's like, there's the last little bit of the, of the.
Phil (08:52.431) Sure.
Phil (09:02.188) of the miter head opened, yeah.
Logan (09:02.697) mitered edge. Yeah. And I think, I think it actually was, was tear out because this, this, this, bur oak is so chippy. but anyways, a few of them, had chamfered a fairly wide, maybe quarter inch, three eighths inch chamfer on them, glued a quarter sawn strip onto there, flush trimmed it with the two faces and then re-chamfered it. And you cannot see, mean, like if I pointed out, you could see it, but you cannot see it. and I'm, I'm
Phil (09:31.461) Sure.
Logan (09:32.543) I'm trying to be pretty deliberate with how, and this is something that we don't ever really talk about, but like if you're building a piece of furniture for a particular space, there is a show face and there is a not show face. So like my desk is going right here. So from the driver's seat, the right-hand side,
Phil (09:48.612) Right.
Logan (09:57.503) is visible. That's what you see when you walk in the office. The left hand side is going to be up against the wall. So you are not going to see any of that back left leg. You're not going to see three faces of that front left leg. So it's like, if I got a knot or a big chunk of tear out, we're putting that on the back corner, right? Where you're not going to see it. So it's making those decisions, knowing where that piece of furniture is going to go.
is I find enjoyment of that. like, like, look, this has a knot. I could still use this piece because I could put that in the back corner. So every one of my legs is labeled front left, front right, back left, back right with arrows facing out on like which direction are the show faces. You know, and the same way with I'm working on the, right now I am working on the, so everything's frame and panel.
Phil (10:44.207) Sure.
Logan (10:53.549) connecting the legs. I'm working on the back frame and panel assembly, which is 60 inches long. And finding a 60 inch clear six inch wide piece of bur oak is pretty hard. AKA is far too cold for me to dig through my lumber stack to find the perfect piece. So I'm grabbing one that is good enough and it's in the back like like you might see it a little bit in a photo and it's bur oak. It's like to me it's it's cool because it just has that has that look. It's a wolfish
You know?
Phil (11:25.465) Yeah. And I think that's an important point in considering when you're building projects is that it's really easy to obsess over perfect parts when, like you said, there are places and faces of parts that are never going to see the light of day.
Logan (11:46.177) Yeah. Yeah. And one thing, one thing that Oak does really well is just like the Detroit lions, it cracks under pressure. like, I'm just trying to get the Northern Michigan nurse going now. the, so the faces check really bad, even in the sun, like, or even air drying. if the sun hits them, the faces check. So I have a couple of my, like,
rails that are on my good show face that is facing the door when you entered my office, the inside has deep checks that were deep enough that me planing it still left a few little surface checks, but they're on the inside. So you're never, they're going to be covered by George. You're never going to see them. So yeah, it's, you know, people like to say, well, you know, I need straight a hundred percent clear, you know, white oak. Well, okay. But generally you don't see two of those faces.
So yeah. And to be honest with you, like it's a natural material, right? Like the tree grew, there's knots in the middle of the tree. like, that's why it's why we have a different, forestry service grading for walnut versus anything else, because by nature it has more knots, you know, it just is what it is. So, you know,
Phil (12:43.673) Yeah, at least two of those faces.
John Doyle (13:12.987) Are you going to stay in this desk? No, natural.
Logan (13:13.27) If you want.
No, I had, I had considered it. we use that, we use Willie's kind of mission finishing schedule on this, limber bookcase. And I really liked the looks of it. it has a really nice look. It's a little darker than I want, I think for my desk. instead I'm going to, have two samples. I actually just finished in the last couple of days, one with waterlocks, satin and one with shellac blonde shellac flakes.
And I think I'm honestly I think I'm gonna do shellac just because it's a faster application Because I am going to pre finish a lot of these parts before glue up So it's I don't want to though the water locks a no water locks is expensive It was 50 bucks for a quart can of it, which that seems really pricey to me And it is a 24-hour cure between coats
Phil (13:51.247) Okay.
Phil (14:07.301) Yeah.
Logan (14:13.067) where shellac's like a 24 second cure between coats and like the smaller, like the panels, like right now I'm working on the framing panels and stuff. So it's like, I'm to do the panels. I want to be able to seal those. I'll probably do those and the insides of like the rails and stuff. And then I'll do the faces after everything's been dried, but like the top, I could just bring that in and I could spray it with shellac, you know, the
the water locks is a brush or a pad on and you know, it does look nice but I think the blonde shellac gives it the oak a little bit more color than I want. yeah.
Phil (14:55.289) Okay.
Logan (14:59.213) So no, am not fit. That was my ADHD answer of no, I'm not fit, I'm not staining it.
John Doyle (15:05.208) Do go in and fill any of the visible knots? Do you do that with a black epoxy?
Logan (15:10.48) I No. So what I've been doing in like my window trim and stuff, I did a combination. Some of it was ground espresso beans, actually used espresso beans. And I like that. That works pretty well. So you still have espresso beans, thin CA glue wicks right down in there. Looks good.
Phil and I have some videos coming up with Durham's water putty. Everybody probably knows the can of the little strong man on the can. You you buy it at any hardware store. They're local here, so we're doing a few videos with them. And the video I'm going to do is using colorant to tint the epoxy or tint the filler. So I think I will probably do some black micro powder on some of it. You know, just looking for that dark, natural look.
So, yeah.
John Doyle (16:09.249) What can't coffee fix, you know?
Logan (16:12.077) That's true. Anxiety. Anxiety.
Phil (16:17.997) insomnia.
Logan (16:19.093) Yes, insomnia.
Phil (16:24.099) All right, perfect. All right, next question or topic that I wanted to discuss comes up here in the video studio when we're shooting the TV show compared to the shop. then I also, what really made me think about it was yesterday we were doing some video work out at your shop, and that is band saw working heights.
Logan (16:53.355) Mm-hmm.
Phil (16:54.915) Because I have a Delta 14 inch cast iron frame. You know, you think of the platonic ideal of a 14 inch bandsaw and it's the Delta version and they have a height. The table height is probably. I don't know about sternum height. You know, pretty high. I would say almost like drill press height feeling.
Logan (17:23.105) Mm-hmm.
Phil (17:24.613) Several of the band saws that we have in the shop, the older Laguna that we have is kind of like that. Even that Rikon that we had on the set for a few years was like that. However...
Logan (17:36.14) Yep.
Phil (17:40.387) The grizzly that we have on the set now is actually lower. And I think the Harvey that you have in your shop is lower still.
Logan (17:50.249) It is. is. And I've noticed that. Yeah.
Phil (17:55.535) So I would like to know both of your guys' opinion. Does it feel weird, one or the other? And do you have a preference?
John Doyle (18:06.441) I feel like I don't mind the lower height for like resawing and like that kind of work, but like more detailed cutting. I like it, you know, like more sternum height closer to my face, maybe so can see. Maybe that's an eyesight thing, but or control thing. So. Guess that's where I stand.
Logan (18:31.083) Yeah, I, I agree with, with John and neither Phil or myself are tall people. Chris and John are taller than both of us. but I, I agree with John, like for resawing, I love the low table. Like, cause then I'm kind of, I can use a little bit more of my body weight to do some of the work than my arms.
Like with, with something that's at chest height, um, I'm censoring myself there at chest height. You know, I'm, I'm using a lot more arm weight and arm muscle to resauce. like doing, um, you know, all the panel in my shop, you know, that was a lot of resaucing. Um, if I was doing that all by my arms, man, I'd be tired. Um, the, the crescent a little taller.
That's maybe six inches taller than the Harveas. And I find it okay for resawing, but same thing, it's higher, so I'm using a lot more arm weight than I am body weight to do it. For detail work, I want that a little bit higher, closer to my face so I can watch that line in the blade a little bit closer.
However, I say that and the Harvey saw that I have has that nickel plated table and it's actually a really bright surface. I find it significantly easier to see stuff on that saw than I do on the crescent or like, I mean, I will, to be honest, like our TV show set where Phil is sitting, that shop, that is not woodworking light. It is very dim in there when we are filming.
Phil (20:18.799) when we're filming. Yeah.
Logan (20:20.115) Yes, it's very dim. It looks great on camera, but it's hard to see. you know, that's not a fair comparison. But I feel like on that Harvey saw, because the reflection, everything's brighter. It's easier for me to see what I'm doing, even though it is a much lower table.
Phil (20:38.073) Okay.
Phil (20:42.457) Yeah, I just had, I don't think I had seen that Harvey in your shop yet. And it was really fascinating to see how low it was. Cause it was like table saw height or lower, which just felt unusual. Not necessarily wrong, but, and I think it's because I have spent most of my woodworking on that Delta model. You know, we had
Logan (20:54.337) Yeah, it is.
Logan (21:08.173) Mm-hmm.
Phil (21:08.493) Years ago when Powermatic was a sponsor, had their 14 inch saw, which was pretty much, pretty much the same as the Delta. so I'm really comfortable in that zone. that sternum height, feel like gives me a lot of finesse control for shifting work pieces around and, and visibility and the resawing that I've done. And again, those saws are limited to six inches. So it's not like you have humongous pieces on there.
Logan (21:12.821) Same height, yeah.
Phil (21:38.729) still felt okay, but hearing you talk about big, big pieces, I can see that. Yeah.
Logan (21:45.197) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I will say like the Harvey saw itself is a much smaller saw than other comparable size saws. If that makes sense. Like it's a 15 inch saw. Um, so if you compare it to like a 15 inch pyromatic, the 15 inch pyromatic is a much larger saw. Um, I, I,
Phil (21:57.7) Yeah.
Phil (22:06.382) Yes.
Logan (22:08.993) this Harvey is probably, knowing full well that they sponsored the podcast, but like, this is probably my favorite bandsaw that I've ever used. Yeah, yeah. The guide system on it is fantastic. I love the nickel table. Yeah, it's, I had the first, I had the same thought when I...
John Doyle (22:16.483) Bye!
Phil (22:19.727) really? Okay.
Logan (22:33.365) first got it out of the crate. Cause you know, when I'm, when I'm looking to buy it, like it's like, I didn't look at the table height. Like that's a weird thing to look at. but when when it showed up here, it's, it's, it's not, but when I got it, I'm like, huh, it's like a Fisher price saw, you know, but it's not like, think, I think resauce fantastic. put a carbide tip blade on it. Yeah.
Phil (22:42.425) And I don't think it's really obvious on photos either.
John Doyle (22:52.322) you
Phil (22:52.357) Hahaha
Logan (23:04.017) And it's way easier to put a beginner in a class I'm teaching on the Harvey than it is on the big crescent.
Plus, nobody, nobody should own a bandsaw without a foot brake. That's just my opinion. The foot brake is my favorite feature.
John Doyle (23:24.376) All gas, no brakes.
Logan (23:27.157) Yeah. The grizzly on the set, that has a brake, but it's a motor brake. is not, it has a foot brake too. It does have a foot brake. But like when you shut it off manually, it stops itself. So.
Phil (23:35.021) Right. It has a foot break as well, yeah.
Phil (23:43.489) Right. Cause that was something that bandsaws historically have done is taken a long time to spool down. And the bigger the bandsaw, the longer that time is.
Logan (23:54.187) Yep, I let the I let the Crescent run. I turned the deceleration off on the VFD and I think we'll run for 20 minutes. Just just spool and just constantly moving.
Phil (24:05.795) Yeah.
John Doyle (24:07.179) I feel I don't remember what the answer was. I feel like we had one in the shop where it like, just keep running and running. It's like, is it off? Did I turn it off? He'd walk away and come back and it's rolling along.
Phil (24:15.79) Yeah.
Phil (24:19.225) You end up pushing the button three or four times. I think that was that Powermatic 15-inch one. That was like that.
Logan (24:19.234) Yep.
John Doyle (24:25.907) Okay, yeah.
Logan (24:28.609) Yeah, and that did have a foot break. Nobody used it though.
John Doyle (24:31.084) that's what that was for. okay.
Logan (24:33.997) Yeah, that wasn't the gas
Phil (24:34.265) Phil (24:38.051) I was thinking clutch like to go from the metal cutting speed to the wood cutting speed.
John Doyle (24:39.692) Yeah.
Phil (24:47.203) Which was weird because the shifter arm was way up behind the wheel.
Logan (24:50.604) Yeah.
Phil (24:54.757) So anyway, that would be a question for listeners is if you've switched bandsaws and found that the table height was different, do you have a preference or what your current bandsaw height table height is? And do you find that it's in the right place? Like, would you prefer a bandsaw table to be lower or higher? What? Love to hear that. So if you have any.
comments on that you can leave that in the comments section on our YouTube channel or send us an email woodsmith at woodsmith.com
Phil (25:32.121) Now the other segment that I wanted to talk about was something that you had mentioned offhandedly yesterday, Logan. We were doing a video on changing out the cutter head on a thickness planer, going from a straight knife, high speed steel, traditional cutter head to a spiral carbide insert cutter head.
Logan (25:57.132) Mm-hmm.
Phil (26:01.285) And I was working on removing a couple of sprockets and pulleys that were held in place with snap rings. And you had a set of snap ring pliers and said that these are the kinds of tools that make woodworkers better.
Logan (26:21.479) So, okay, so I think what I said is, love it or hate it, Amazon has introduced a bunch of users to the right tools for the job for a low price. like, yeah, like having, before I had snap ring pliers that had interchangeable heads.
John Doyle (26:50.441) Cough cough
Logan (26:50.495) It's one of the like two different types you can buy it like Harbor Freight or Lowe's or Menards or whatever. They're awful. They are stupid. So about the third time I pinched my finger and threw them into the timber behind my house, I was like, I'm just going to order like a good set of them. And it's like, you can buy a set of nice snapping pliers on Amazon for like 24 bucks for four different, you know, straight and bent.
open when you squeeze them or close when you squeeze them. Like the four types you need. And they come in a roll and it's just like immediately you're like, my God, this is the right tool. This is like, this is what having the proper tool for the application is like and not having the cheap piece of crap one that you bought at Harbor Freight. the Harbor Freight actually has some nice snap ring pliers now. They are more expensive, but yeah.
Phil (27:47.054) Yeah.
John Doyle (27:48.232) was going to say I have a Menards Toolshop brand, snappering pliers that you're describing used one time and now I feel like you killed the resale value of them. I feel like they're worthless now.
Logan (28:00.253) I mean, I mean, you, paid, you paid 6.99 new forum. like, yeah, yeah. But like, like, you know what I mean? Like I would say I'm using Amazon as, as the retailer here, but like just having the right tool for the job.
Phil (28:04.026) Yeah.
John Doyle (28:05.444) All right. I got my use out of them.
Logan (28:25.257) changes the entire experience of doing said job.
Phil (28:30.553) yeah. Yeah. Cause I've, and I think any number of us have tried to do whether it's a snap ring or not, but that's just representative of something where a specialized tool would be super handy and you can make do without it, but you've tripled or more the time that it takes to do just that small operation. So that in the changing of that cutter head, there were
Was it five snap rings, something like that, that we had to do. And with the snap ring pliers, it was eight seconds, you know, and without snap ring pliers, there's a lot more muttering that you're doing. And, you know, you're trying to do it with pliers and screwdrivers and stuff. And it just takes much, much longer.
Logan (29:01.473) Yeah, something like that.
Logan (29:15.415) Yep.
Logan (29:28.493) Yeah. And I mean, like snap ring pliers are the vessel right now, but like I, when I was working on putting this drill press back together, um, I, I realized that something at some point, like the pulley had been shifted and nothing was lining up in the head. So I needed to get the, it's a direct drive pulley. So there's a, a pulley mounted on the end of the motor and I needed to get that off. Um,
There's no, like there's nowhere, nowhere to pry it off. It's a cast aluminum pulley. They're known to break. And I'm like, you know what? Go to Amazon, order a $19 pair of, you know, four different sizes of pulley, pullers or gear pullers.
They're here the next morning. It's the right tool. I didn't break the damn thing, you know, and it was put the arms on it, turn the wrench three or four cranks and it pops right off. Like the heck I have, I have, guess over the years learned my lesson. Like by using the wrong tool, ends up being far more expensive in the long run.
whether I'm replacing parts or spending eight hours to get a broken screw out that I use the wrong size head on, you know.
Phil (30:53.445) Right, and I think along with that is the idea that now having access to some of those tools puts a job like fixing up an old machine within the reach of more people than it did in the past where it doesn't feel as intimidating.
Logan (31:18.965) It's making the task definitely more approachable for most people.
You know, and it's like, it's, mean, and knowing full well that, you know, not everybody can afford just to go, you know, buy, buy, you know, snapping pliers or whatever, but like, there are certain tools, I think in the wood shop that it's like, Oh, like this is the right tool for this job. And I, it's made me a better woodworker, you know, just off the top of my head. As soon as I bought a vacuum chuck for my lathe.
John Doyle (31:27.139) Cough
Logan (31:49.739) You know, doing bowls got significantly easier and significantly better because now I'm not trying to jam chuck a bowl on or figure out how to use cold jaws to hold a bowl to take a tenon off. You know, I can just stick the vacuum pump on it and just suck it to the lathe head, you know.
Phil (32:09.913) Yeah. So anyway, like I said, it was, it was just one of those.
lack of a better cliche kind of an aha moment of yeah
it's really nice to be able to have access to low cost, decent quality tools for the fact that, you know, how many times have you used those snap ring pliers? You know, probably not very many. And yeah. And if you use them another, right. Yeah. Which is saying something.
Logan (32:36.525) Yeah, every couple of months, yeah. Enough that I knew right where they were. Yeah, yeah.
Phil (32:47.033) but if you were to use them only say like a dozen more times in the rest of your life, like they were still a great value.
Logan (32:53.261) Yeah. Yeah. Well, and you know, another, another example of this was I think like the third screw you went to remove fill head stripped off. And I have, I have a set of easy outs that did not work. And I was like, you know what? got some square easy outs that are better that I, I broke a, I broke a bolt on the Norwood sawmill and I ordered these square easy outs for that bolt.
Phil (33:04.59) Right.
Logan (33:22.989) And I've used them for the Norwood. I used them on a bolt I broke on my lawnmower. Used them on your planer, like $9 set of easy outs.
Phil (33:36.985) Yeah. So there, mean, that's a perfect, that's another perfect example of having those kinds of tools that I don't think a lot of people know exist. And the, the snapping of a fastener at an inopportune time can be one of the most disheartening Saturday sounds in the history of mankind.
John Doyle (34:03.935) Makes you just want to scream darn it. Darn it all the heck. Excuse my language. Excuse my language. Bleep, bleep that out, please.
Phil (34:06.245) Yeah.
Logan (34:11.469) Well, like, And you know, the, like the, thing that I really appreciate and I hate, like, I understand that people are like, I'm not giving Bezos my money. Like I get it. However, as a consumer who I try, I try not to buy stupid stuff. I know, I know, but like,
Phil (34:28.516) Yeah.
Logan (34:40.947) I can, yeah, I can like go and look at the 50 different options for snap ring pliers and say, look, this $18 set of four snap ring pliers has 8,000 reviews and five stars. Clearly the people say it's a goodbye.
Phil (34:41.263) There's the podcast title.
Logan (35:03.929) And instead of, you know, be, and it, is more a, a byproduct of our modern society where it's like, I, I, I'm not stuck to what the department store has, you know, I'm not going into, you know, Sears and buying the, the one craftsman set of snap ring pliers that they have. And that's my only option.
Phil (35:22.501) Right.
Phil (35:29.251) No, I agree. And I think it just shows the nuance of it's really easy to take sides on something like that about either Amazon or
quote unquote cheap stuff made in China or Taiwan or name, insert country or whatever. But the fact that it has opened up opportunities for a lot more people to be involved in stuff, to fix their own gear, to be interested in opening up the hood of an old tool, a broken tool, a car, whatever makes
makes people a lot more capable.
Logan (36:16.609) Yeah. And you know, on, on that note, like the head you installed yesterday into your planer was a head from a company called find by tool. Okay. It is, I don't think they make any claims otherwise. It is a direct from China, Asia, Taiwan, wherever head that is designed to fit that DeWalt planer.
They offer heads for a lot of different things. It used to be that, you know, Bird, Shelex was about the only one in the, in the space. and I know, I know, you know, Larry and Chad and you know, all those guys down there, like great company. I love those guys, but like,
the ability to buy a head at a lower cost and still have it be a quality head. You know, it opens up the same thing we're talking about that opens up the possibility for somebody to be able to plop a head in their planer for, you know, maybe 200, $300 versus seven or $800. So, you know,
Phil (37:32.921) Yeah, pick your battles.
Logan (37:34.743) Yeah.
Phil (37:38.393) I like having more people involved in woodworking.
Logan (37:41.153) Yeah, absolutely. So do you think having installed that head yesterday and used it once so far, it was pretty like it was not bad to do.
Phil (37:55.097) No, the process was a lot simpler than what I thought it was going to be. I said in the video, as we were filming it, the hardest part is the disassembly because I mean, for the most part, nobody routinely takes apart a tool, any of their tools to see what's going on in there. It's one of those things where you walk into your shop. I need to.
plane this board, resaw this part, blah, blah, blah. And you just power on the machine, do the operation, and let it go. opening up, you know, for that DeWalt, I had to take some stuff off the top and off of each side to get access to the cutter head and the bearings and stuff. It's just an unfamiliar landscape. I mean, it's familiar because it's like gears and chains and that kind of stuff.
But keeping track of all the fasteners, where they go, making sure you have the right Allen head and Torx wrench and all that kind of stuff is the hardest part. Nothing else was really complicated. Or dealing with a stuck fastener, that a stuck fastener with a relatively soft head. I mean, it's just, it's really easy for some of those to strip out. So.
Logan (39:17.773) Yeah. You know, what I was impressed with is having only dealt with installing helical heads from a company like Bird or WGM who I've also used in the past. Those heads are for definitely lesser, less popular tools. So it's like, here's the head, you're on your own.
That head you had yesterday, it had a really nice set of instructions, which I would have, if somebody would be like, is this gonna come with instruction? I'd like, no, you're dumb. There's no way it's gonna come with instructions. It's kind of one of those, here's the head, up to you to figure out how to put it in. And it was not the case, which was kind of cool. It had full instructions, it had everything.
Phil (39:58.649) No. Yeah. Good luck.
John Doyle (40:02.304) Okay.
Phil (40:05.796) Right.
Phil (40:12.409) Yeah. Which made it.
Logan (40:14.06) the longest process was installing the cutters.
Phil (40:17.453) Right. Yeah. Cause it had
What was it? 56 cutters, I think, four rows of 14.
Logan (40:24.599) Four rows of eight, yeah, yep, yep.
Phil (40:27.737) so yeah, getting those in place where the cutter is facing the right way, you know, seated well in its bed and then torque down to the right torque setting. yeah, was, was definitely the longest just because you're trying to reach down in with a little screw into a semi dark space, drop it into the hole and then trying to make sure that you didn't cross thread it as you were starting it up. So.
Phil (41:02.585) But I'm excited now to have that back in my shop and to have some warmer weather where I want to be out in my shop doing some stuff. Cause I have some window trim that I want to make and it'd be really cool.
Logan (41:15.917) It was, it was honestly, it was, so another stupid thing direct from China that I bought was a decibel meter. And we ran that planer with the decibel meter before and after the head. And I think it peaked at like 107 decibels before we did the change and like 93, 94 before or after.
So like a 10 % reduction in decimal reading, but the sound was significantly nicer. Like, you know, Phil had headphones on, but Nate and I are standing there with the camera and it's like, like the dust collector is louder than that planer is. And those lunchbox planers are shrill shrieking MFers, you know, like.
Phil (42:02.125) Yeah, and that that Dewalt 735 for as great of a machine that it is, is notoriously loud. Even for that style of planer. Yeah, and it did not.
Logan (42:12.481) Yeah. And it was not. Yeah.
John Doyle (42:22.642) I don't about you guys, but it seems like any time. Like I take the time to like change planer blades or clean blades or change blades or upgrade tool or take the time to tune up a tool is like, yeah, woodworking is kind of nice, you know, kind of brings back the joy of it. It's like I didn't realize how bad this was until. Now I'm using sharp tools and they're quieter and easier to use. Kind of enjoying enjoyable.
Logan (42:37.835) Yeah!
Phil (42:37.999) Ha ha!
Logan (42:46.359) Yeah.
Logan (42:50.763) Yep.
John Doyle (42:55.004) and you get better results too.
Phil (42:57.285) Yeah. Yeah. Cause that we had a sample piece of oak that we ran through the first time or both times. And I dunno, was that some of that burroke where it was? Yeah. Had a couple, yeah. Swirly grain, a couple of knots in there. And it was just a really smooth surface. No tear out. Cause sometimes with
Logan (43:09.335) think it is, yeah. Little twirly grain.
Phil (43:24.013) regular boards, you know, you always are with a regular cutter head. want to plane with the direction of the grain. But when you say that you're planing with the grain as it runs through most of the board, it's almost very rare where the grain runs the same direction in the entire board. It's you're going to get those spots where all of a sudden it just kind of looks a little
Logan (43:38.719) Yeah, you always have a reversing area. Yeah.
Phil (43:51.277) little hairy or ratty or whatever that you're getting some tear out and and it didn't on there so that was that was really cool.
Phil (44:01.615) The other thing that I like is with the insert cutter heads, and I've seen that on our different tools here when we upgraded them to either upgraded the tool or the cutter head itself is that those inserts, they're still shavings, but they're much smaller. So they don't clog up shop vac hoses or dust collector hoses to the same degree.
Logan (44:19.106) Yeah.
Logan (44:27.341) It breaks the chip up for sure.
Phil (44:29.764) Yeah.
Phil (44:37.221) All right, there you go. That's another episode of the shop notes podcast. I would love it if you could think about an unexpected tool that made your life in the shop a little easier, made you a better woodworker. Is it something as simple as some easy outs for backing out those concerted broken fasteners or like snap ring pliers? Like we were talking about today. What's, what's your favorite? Put that in the comment section.
or send us an email woodsmith at woodsmith.com. Don't forget to check out the show notes page. We'll put a couple of photos of things that we have going on here and we will see you next time. Thanks to Harvey Tools for sponsoring today's episode. Check out their full line of woodworking tools at harveywoodworking.com. Bye everybody.
